Home > St Louis 2014 > Anticipating the Conference: Giulio Fanti on SSG

Anticipating the Conference: Giulio Fanti on SSG

June 14, 2014

Giulio Fanti |  10-Oct-2014  |  8:30-9:30 pm


The group is composed of several academics from around the world, researchers, scholars and it has the advantage of presenting a remarkable multidisciplinary, necessary for Shroud studies.

In 2005 the group published a paper on the characteristics of the Shroud, to be considered for the study of the body image formation (Ref. 1). In 2008 it organized an " International Conference – The Shroud of Turin : Perspectives on a Multifaceted Enigma ," in Columbus, Ohio.

Many interesting results about the Relic have been obtained from the rich discussion of SSG and from the work of SSG members. Among them it must not forgotten the “Doubly superficiality” body image (Ref. 2); the first dating after the 1988 radiocarbon results made by R. Rogers (Ref. 3) who demonstrated that the Shroud is much older than the Medieval date obtained in 1988; the mechanical and opto-chemical dating (Refs. 4, 5) that determined a date of the Shroud (33 B.C. ±250 years at 95% confidence level) compatible with the age in which Jesus Christ lived in Palestine; some new hypotheses of body image formation like those of the author and of Paolo Di Lazzaro (Refs. 6, 7).

Click on the title to read the full abstract. Click here for the conference home page.

  1. Paulette
    June 14, 2014 at 8:09 am

    8:30 to 9:30 PM? A whole hour long two and a half hours after dinner and three free drinks? Talk about double superficiality!!!

  2. piero
    June 16, 2014 at 9:59 am

    I was curious about the interesting numismatic dating /investigations and
    (if your try to find somenthing surfing the Web) there are several images
    of ancient coins … But this argument seems to be disregarded.
    Sorry … First of all I wanted to indicate the coins because I am not rich … !
    — — —
    Now I want to add a different kind of remark.
    Here the important statement by Fanti :
    >the mechanical and opto-chemical dating (Refs. 4, 5) that determined a date of the Shroud (33 B.C. ±250 years at 95% confidence level) compatible with the age in which Jesus Christ lived in Palestine

    In the past, I wrote some line on this blog suggesting two ways : AFM on cellulosic chains and AFM controls on elastic modulus (using indentation or AFM bending tests).

    Please, read the message published in March 6, 2014 at 10:13 am :
    >I want to add a remark about another information :
    AFM is a powerful tool for investigating linen fibrils.
    And the acquisition of high-speed AFM images permits to see the AFM movie …
    Using the adequate AFM instrument (the high-speed AFM), we can conduct structural studies on linen fibrils.
    Mechanical behavior of ancient linen fibrils is an interesting question to investigate. Do you agree ?
    >… But, until now we have not yet seen an interesting AFM movie on linen fibrils (and their behavior under load) …

    Unfortunately, after sixteen years (starting from 1998), no serious study (with the use of the controls AFM) appears.
    Why ?
    After 16 years no AFM serious study on cellulosic chains and elastic modulus (obtained by indentation or/and 3P bending test) !
    Why ?

    Read, for example, under the address :

    Indentation and Adhesive Probing of a Cell Membrane with AFM: Theoretical Model and Experiments , by Shamik Sen, Shyamsundar Subramanian, and Dennis E. Discher

    But I want to see what happens on linen fibrils and I don’t suggest to work on precious red cells (coming from the Man of the Shroud)!
    If you try to read something surfing the Web, perhaps you find the following words in a question :
    >”It is difficult to get Young’s modulus with the NanoScope AFM nanoindenting technique. The modulus depends on the slope of the unloading curve of the indent and the indent force curves generated with this technique are not true sample deformation, but instead the sum of cantilever deflection and sample deformation, which is typically difficult to decouple”
    Here the answer :
    >The difficulty was caused by the lack of analysis software, not any problem with the data acquisition (although you will need an accurate deflection sensitivity calibration …)

    Link : http://nanoscaleworld.bruker-axs.com/nanoscaleworld/forums/p/1063/2831.aspx

    Try also under:
    See : Figure 1. Schematic of load-displacement curve for an instrumented nanoindentation test.
    — —
    I prefer the AFM 3-P bending test.
    There are several papers…
    Here an example : Young’s Modulus of Cellulose Fibrils Using AFM

    Using the proper nanomechanical tests there are no great destructions and we can see what is the meaning from the different kind of data obtained (using Applied Statistics …).

    What are your comments ?

  3. piero
    June 16, 2014 at 10:59 am

    Errata corrige.
    I wrote in a wrong manner.

    I was curious about the interesting numismatic dating /investigations and
    (if you try to find something surfing the Web) there are several images
    of ancient coins.

    Instead of :

    I was curious about the interesting numismatic dating /investigations and
    (if your try to find somenthing surfing the Web) there are several images
    of ancient coins.
    — — — —
    Another thing :
    I still prefer the AFM 3-P bending test (with respect the indentation).
    Am I wrong in my idea ?
    In any case prof. Giulio Fanti used linen fibrils in loading test at break…
    — — — —
    I have indicated the same study that has been quoted last year.

    link: https://shroudstory.com/2013/03/27/giulio-fanti-the-image-of-a-man-who-lived-between-280-bc-and-220-ad/

    here an excerpt from the text of my past message:
    >in the previous messages (on this blog) I indicate the AFM
    three point-bending tests.
    >Then you can read (and see) what is illustrated under :
    >The title of the presentation is the following :
    Young’s Modulus of Cellulose Fibrils measured using Atomic Force Microscopy
    Siqun Wang and Qingzheng Cheng,
    Univ. of Tennessee (2008)

    — —
    Using the AFM controls is possible to guess something about the particular question of presumed radiations (= B.I.F. by radiations …).

    This morning I reread an old book by Peter Krassa and Reiner Habeck
    (but I don’t believe in Ancient Egyptian Lightbulbs !) …
    We can try to see what are the results obtained on linen using a similar apparel.
    Despite the claims about the Temple of Hathor at Dendera (it seemed to be strange inscriptions depicting a bulb-like object which some have suggested is reminiscent of a “Crookes tube” [= an early lightbulb]) I am still curious about the Ark of the Covenants
    and the radiation burns from the Ark of the Covenant …
    But this scenario (heretic) is extremely vague !

  4. piero
    June 17, 2014 at 9:17 am

    Some word about the AFM 3-P bending test :
    Flexural modulus is relative with stiffness of the test specimen; the larger is the modulus, the larger loadings can its resist, so that its stiffness is much stronger.
    Flexural properties may vary with sample thickness, testing temperature and deflection velocity
    — — —
    There are other interesting ways to investigate linen (= lignocellulosic material).
    See, for example :

    – AFM-Raman controls (included bending tests) on irradiated (VUV, UV and nuclear particles) linen samples (… despite the interesting claims by Yannick Clément, Fazio
    and Mandaglio).

    – Electron tomography : Electron tomography is an extension of traditional transmission electron microscopy (TEM).
    Link : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_tomography

    – Transmission electron microscopy
    Link : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_electron_microscopy

    Etc., etc.

  5. Piero
    June 18, 2014 at 11:13 am

    I am curious about the new claims around the Alpha particles …
    Yes. Radon is produced during the radioactive decay of naturally-occurring U238 and Th232 in soil, rocks, and concrete. But we have to control what are the effects on cellulosic materials.
    In the past I suggested to use the SSNTDs (Solid State Nuclear Track Detectors) as material for the calibrations…
    — —
    In any case we have to know something about the Cellulose …

    S h o r t b i b l i o g r a p h y :

    Cellulose chains form sheets which are connected with each other.
    Observe the cross sectional image taken from:
    – Gross and Chu J. Phys. Chem. B 2010, 114, 13333
    (= Radial cross section of a cellulose I beta crystallite)

    Two forms of native crystalline cellulose exist : cellulose I alpha and cellulose I beta. Crystallographic details in 1Å resolution (cellulose I alpha and I beta):
    Nishiyama et al.
    -J. Am. Chem. Soc. 2002, 124, 9074.
    -J. Am. Chem. Soc. 2003, 125, 14300.
    = I alpha: one chain triclinic I alpha, dominant in bacterial cellulose and algae
    I beta: two chain monoclinic, dominant in higher plants (e.g. wood, cotton)

    -Baker et al. J. Struct. Biol. 1997, 119, 129.

    Native cellulose I is decidedly stiffer and stronger than the “man-made” forms

    Nishino et al. J. Polym. Sci. B 1995, 33, 1647

    Cross sectional models of crystalline cellulose microfibrils
    6×6 (36) chain models

    Ding and Himmel J. Agric. Food Chem. 2006, 54, 597
    • Based on Atomic Force Microscopy
    • much debated model.

    Sugiyama et al. Macromolecules 1991, 24, 4168.
    • Based on diffraction studies
    • More accepted model

    24 chain model
    • Based on diffraction, NMR, and FTIR spectroscopy data
    • Debate is still open
    Fernandes et al. PNAS 2011, 108, E1195

    • 36 and 24 chain models refer to the smallest cellulose microfibrils,
    such as those present in wood cells
    • Often these smallest microfibrils are referred to as elementary fibrils

    Source Degree of crystallinity Microfibril width* Microfibril width**
    Bacterial cellulose 65-79% 5 nm 4-7 nm
    Cotton linters 56-65% 5 nm 7-9 nm
    Hemp 60% 3-5 nm 3-18 nm
    Flax 56% 4-5 nm 3-18 nm

    *) Deduced from X-ray diffraction (reflection from 110 lattice plane)
    **) Deduced from transmission electron microscopy images

    Zugenmaier, In: Crystalline cellulose and cellulose derivatives;
    Springer: 2008; p. 208.
    — —
    Alternating crystalline-amorphous regions explain well
    the macroscopic mechanical properties of cellulosic materials …
    See also : the elastic modulus and the 3p bending tests…

  6. piero
    June 19, 2014 at 8:59 am

    Here an excerpt from the message that I have sent in this blog
    (March 27, 2013 at 11:31 am)

    >… … in 1998 I have indicated the AFM controls
    on cellulosic chains but these controls are different with
    respect the three-point bending AFM tests (or the other
    mechanical tests performed by Giulio and Pierandrea).
    >In any case I believe that using the AFM controls
    we can achieve the good results, with the good level of precision (= statistical results).
    >The true dating is an intriguing problem to solve …
    >Have they solved all the questions in a good manner ?
    >Are the old linen fibrils investigable without destructions ?
    — — —
    Until now no work was done on ancient linen fibrils using
    the AFM 3-point (or multipoint) bending tests …

    The advantage of using the AFM is that it allows the user to view
    both treated/untreated cellulose fibres at the nanometer scale,
    potentially enabling the user to identify and image crystalline and
    amorphous regions within cellulose, and gain an understanding
    of treatement into linen fibres …

    The atomic force microscope (AFM) was developed by Binnig, Quate and
    Gerber in 1986, following its predecessor, the scanning tunnelling microscope
    Both instruments belong to a family of microscopes broadly known as
    Scanning Probe Microscopes (SPM).
    The primary use of AFM is to quantitatively determine surface morphology
    at the nano-scale …

    The sharpness of the tip is the key determinant in the resolution of AFM imaging.

    In addition to its imaging functions, AFM is also able to quantitatively measure
    the attractive and repulsive forces that exist between the sample and probe,
    as the cantilever is brought into contact with and then pulled away from
    the sample surface.
    — — —
    Here an interesting reference (= BIF analyses ! …) :

    Gibson, C.T., Watson, G.S., Mapledoram, L.D., Kondo, H. & Myhra, S.
    Characterisation of organic thin films by atomic force microscopy – applications of force vs. distance analysis and other modes.
    Appl. Surf. Sci., (1999), 144-145, 618-622.

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