Techies call them Distributed Discussion Forums (DDF) At different times and in different forms they have been called Bulleting Board Systems (BBS), Newsreaders Systems (USENET), Listmail, Wikis and Chat Rooms. Today, they have pretty much evolved into rather easy to use, web-based discussion forums. There are millions of them. Yes, millions. And it is in some of these forums that you can find ongoing discussions about the Shroud of Turin. The three biggies for the shroud seem to be:
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The Thinking Atheist > List of Shroud Discussion Threads (below the ads)
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JREF Forum > List of Shroud Discussion Threads
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Catholic Answers Forums > List of Shroud Discussion Threads
Catholic Answers is the biggest of these forums with about 400,000 members and over 750 shroud related discussion threads, many of them fairly current. But, for the present, JREF has the biggest, most active thread (probably ever) on the subject. Most threads on most forums die naturally and quickly. Not this one JREF thread: Miracle of the Shroud / Blood on the shroud. It started in December 0f 2011 and continues even today with well over 8000 comments and 350,000 views.
Our very own Rich Savage, Hugh Farey and Colin Berry are participants there. Colin is a brand new member and can be read starting at comment 8011.
Virginia Hefferman has an interesting perspective on forums in the New York Times. If she looked at JREF and Catholic Answers she might change her mind.
The fact that JREF has so many participants is an indication of why the Shroud, this blog and Shroud.com are so important. “JR” is James Randy, renowned skeptic who has been cited by Richard Dawkins of God Delusion fame as source for proving all paranormal claims are a hoax.
The authenticity of the Shroud is a profoundly important issue in dealing with the accelerating decline of religion in our time. The professional atheists even cast doubt on the issue of whether Christ existed at all.
Smear me as a believer if you like, but like a lot of people, there came a moment when reviewing the factual information presented by the Shroud, I for the first time, really perceived (but thankfully did not feel) the reality of the Crucifixion and the agony Christ endured.
That I believe in the authenticity of the Shroud does not disqualify me from having an opinion about the authenticity, as some skeptics think. My conclusion is based on my legal training and the principles of evidence used everyday in courts around the world. See the Shroud, the Resurrection and Joe Kennedy, http://johnklotz.blogspot.com/2011_06_01_archive.html
John,
– Would you consider coming over to JREF for awhile? I think that you know a lot more about the shroud than do I.
– Plus, you could tell them that courtroom concepts that I’ve been advocating are altogether appropriate for debates about scientific issues…
– Thanks.
— Rich (Jabba)
It’s tempting but I have to take a pass for a few months. My family is leaving for a joint vacation in four days and I start a trial (hopefully) two days after I return. It’s a chancy thing but very important to my client and me. After trial hpoefully I’ll be able to finish my manuscript completely with out too much further delay. I’ve been at it for two years.
But thanks for the invite Rich. when I am ready, I’ll jump in with both feet. I you like, E-Mail me at klotzlaw@gmail.com and I’ll try to keep you up to date.
Rich, I hate to say it, but I think it is a lost cause. JREF isn’t skepticism. It is fundamentalism of another kind. You would have just as much luck convincing a backwoods Alabama snake handler that evolution is real. You are the main reason this thread goes on and on and on. I admire your efforts but recommend you take a break and join us over here.
I have to concur that many of the skeptical atheists come across as dumb and narrow minded as some Christian fundamentalists. In my experience many atheists are not in fact as smart as they think they are.
AMEN…
Paulette,
– I do agree, but do keep learning more about the Shroud and hope to eventually make some headway, even over there. Somewhere in these current comments, I give John Klotz the addresses of my two websites in which I provide two different versions of an explanation of my alleged method for insuring actually effective public debate. I would encourage you, also, to take a look at what I’m trying to do and give me your thoughts.
— Rich
Yeah, Rich, you should just hang out here we got beer and cocktails. :)
Chris,
– Thanks for the invite. Sounds good to me. I could use a few of both… But then, how do I get there?
— Rich
I told Rich the very same thing a long time ago, when he was trying to recruit here before, and just starting his venture into JREF. JREF is a waste of time, most people on there have the intelligence of a pea. Richard would have more luck trying to convince a brick of the authenticity of the Shroud then that group. Even with all the evidence at hand they will not ever capitulate. Richard you will learn nothing by discussing on that forum, your time would be much better spent reading documents found at shroud.com. Scientific and otherwise. Just trying to understand the scientific documents will send you on various tangents of knowledge and allow you to understand the evidence that exists (at present) much better. That’s my 2c worth.
R
JREF and Catholic Answers reminds me of the Turkish prison in Midnight Express.
what do you mean mean by that?…..hopefully not anticatholic
As a priest? No, of course not. I was referring to the tortured approach to discussion. Catholic Answers, the forum, is not very useful.
CA is extremely superficial and narrow-minded. So is JREF, but for the different reason.
Discussion forums and message boards are usually not the place for an intellectual discussion, just a verbal ping-pong. Rarely can one learn anything there. They are the vent outlets
well said!
John,
– That’s a shame (for me). Hurry back, and good luck with the trial.
– I have two websites (http://messiahornot.com/ and http://shrouddebates.com/) that I’ve pretty much left fallow since logging onto the Randi forum. In each site, I give an explanation of my alleged courtroom method for insuring actually effective public debate. Each site presents its own perspective, so it would be useful for anyone trying to understand what I’m trying to say to read both variations… In other words, I’m asking you to let me know what you think of my alleged method — when you get the chance.
– Thanks.
— Rich
I am a believer. When the Shroud came to my attention I researched it on the computer and determined that in my mind that it is the burial shroud of Jesus Christ. Jus recently when I observed the shroud with the 3-D image of Christ’s Face it kind of rapped me in the head telling me that this is the image of the just risen Christ. Then a few days later I seen the picture of the Shroud and the Prince of Peace kind of over laying it and to me that is very convincing.
To one and all,
It appears to me the first chapter of my work in prohress may be relevant to tis discussion. I have posted at http://quantumchrist-jck.blogspot.com/
It’s copyrghted but feel free to reference the URL or quote from it if you are so inclined. If you do quote from it, all ask is that you attribute it to me.
ok..sorry..although i’ve met a couple of priests at the southern california conference i kinda wonder about….their own interpretations etc…..i’ve never really been on catholic answers….what do you suggest?…what do you think of EWTN
They sure ARE. Just start from this thread page # 203 and post # 8092 LOL
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=226761&page=203
I don’t know about you, guys, but I can’t believe somebody can be this amusing… for real. It just does not happen. In real life.
That is Shakespeare :- )))))))
One interesting point to me is if some believes that the shroud is a hoax, why would they spend so much effort and time dissaproving it. If I think something is a fraud, I give it just enough time until I have enough information to prove to myself it is a fraud and then drop it. Yet it seems to be that there are skepics spending so much time and effort disapproving the shroud. They mush not have anything better to do.
Maybe they are just following orders from down below??? I have already stated of my believe that the Sroud shows the image of Jesus at the instant that his spirit/soul re-entered his physical body. I love the image on the site that shows a photo of the face on the Shroud and the picture of the Prince of Peace blended together.