PZ Myers is a Fundy

Laura writes:

Sullivan is right. From what I have seen of his attention seeking stunts and blog posts, he lives by “the assertion that it is religion and that he therefore knows all he needs to know about it.”  That is pure fundamentalism, no less extreme and no less open to evidence than someone who believes the earth was formed 6000 years ago.  Myers is a Fundy.

BTW: I disagree with you on capitalizing atheism. Would you say someone is a Doubter or an Environmentalist?

Well. Laura, would you say he is a democrat or a republican? When is a noun a proper noun? I class all religious beliefs as proper pronouns. Atheism, despite how strenuously some Atheists deny it, is a belief about religion; non-belief to all except those incapable of logic is belief. Out of respect, I include Atheists, Buddhists, Christians, Wiccans, etc. Environmentalists? Maybe Tree Huggers, anyways.

Laura, you capitalized Fundy but not Fundamentalism. What gives?

The Shroud of Turin Discussed at Important Evangelical Conference (UPDATED)

imageMary Jo Sharp at Confident Christianity writes:

I just returned from the annual Evangelical Theological Society and Evangelical Philosophical Society conference in Atlanta. I attended papers by William Lane Craig, Gary Habermas, JP Moreland, Alvin Plantinga, Angus Menuge. I heard arguments against naturalism and materialism, saw the latest research on the Shroud of Turin, and heard a response to Graham Oppy on the argument from consciousness.

Who presented? What did they say? I’ll try to find out?

Confident Christianity: ETS/EPS Annual Meeting and Apologetics Conference

UPDATED: It was Gary Habermas. Cazab provides a link to the program for the conference: http://www.philchristi.net/documents/2010_EPS_National_Meeting_Schedule.pdf

To the Shelters: B16 over Canterbury

This is how it appears today in Religion News Service:

imageThe Archbishop of Canterbury (aka the spiritual leader of the Anglican Communion) told Vatican radio that he does not think B16’s throwing out the welcome mat for Anglican converts was an "aggressive act." About 50 Church of England priests have reportedly expressed interest in joining five bishops who recently converted to Roman Catholicism through B16’s new process.

imageB16. Sort of makes Benedict XVI’s non-aggressive act sound like a bombing run.  Pictured: Cantuar, the Most Rev. Dr. Rowan Williams and B16.

Quote for Today

imageThe scientific, historical, and other technical data that I refer to as supporting authenticity do unequivocally support the probability of a first-century or very early date for this Shroud and its enigmatic images, and as having originated in the Near East (likely Palestine). Science has not proven (and in my opinion will never categorically prove) this to be specifically the Shroud of Jesus of Galilee. Believers will always need a small leap of faith from the pedestal of knowledge Shroud research has provided. But that research has established that the Shroud image cannot have been man-made by any technique of art or science recorded throughout history, nor by any natural process ever observed or deduced. And all alternative theoretical or suspected methods of image-creation suggested by critics have been carefully and totally demolished by Shroud scientists as not possible. As to ‘authenticity,’ we know this Shroud with its images is not a phony, a fake, a fraud, an imitation, a copy, to any degree or in any respect; it was not made in the past thousand years; a fourteenth-century origin is virtually impossible. Science still does not know how the images were ‘imprinted’ on the Shroud. – Frank Tribbe

Source: Shroud of Turin Story Guide to the Facts 2011

Why Some Bishops Shouldn’t Be On Facebook

imageAn Anglican bishop has now apologized for suggesting the forthcoming marriage of Prince William and Kate Middleton is doomed and an expensive “national flim-flam.”

The Rt. Rev. Pete Broadbent, Bishop of Willesden, had said, “I give the marriage seven years,” on his Facebook page and making it clear that the royal family had many “broken marriages and philanderers.”

He is now saying, more as a bishop of the church should say, “I wish Prince William and Kate Middleton a happy and lifelong marriage, and will hold them in my prayers.”

China and the Pope

According to the AP, China intends to consecrate a Roman Catholic Bishop without approval from the the Pope. I guess we might call this Freedom of the State.

Another Book Named ‘Immaculate Misconception.’ This time about the Shroud of Turin.

imageNew book or something. 2351 pages sounds like a short story, maybe ten pages long unless the font is really big or the page size is really small. It only seems to be in ebook form. The publisher, Smashword, lists Kindle but Amazon doesn’t have the title for Kindle. In other words it is a PDF file that I am welcome to install on my own Kindle.

Here is the publisher’s description at Smashwords – Immaculate Misconception – A book by Mark Stucky:

The mysterious Shroud of Turin has provoked controversy for centuries. Many believe it is the authentic burial cloth of Christ. Many believe it is a forgery. What if, however, there could be a final proof beyond any doubt that it was genuine? What if that proof went terribly, horribly wrong for us all? If you were told such a story by a barely glimpsed stranger, would you, should you, believe it?

The price is right at $0.99.  If anyone reads it, let me know. If the author wants to send me a copy I’ll read it and write a review. It is not that I’m cheap. I’ve just never heard of Smashword and I’m not excited about giving them my credit card number.

Constantine and His Pagan Influence on Christianity

This history lesson video is very much worth watching. It may make you uncomfortable:


Who is Greg Boyd? From his website:

Greg Boyd is a former atheist who surrendered his life to Christ in 1974. After his conversion, he discovered that the faith he embraced failed to address many questions and objections to Christianity. Greg’s search for a well-grounded and intellectually defensible faith led him to study philosophy at the University of Minnesota (B.A.), followed by studies in philosophical theology at Yale Divinity School (M.Div) and Princeton Theological Seminary (Ph.D). He then became a professor of theology for 16 years at Bethel University and is currently the senior pastor of Woodland Hills Church in St. Paul, Minnesota.

PZ Myers Wreathed In A Fog Of Smugness

Andrew Sullivan is so completely right-on here. Wreathed In A Fog Of Smugness is such a perfect title for a post about “Arch atheist PZ Myers.” It is a useful message in understanding why, no matter what facts exist and might yet come to light, people like PZ Myers will never accept the possibility that the Shroud of Turin is real.

imageAnd he quotes Myers (pictured) (I have shortened the quote here):

. . . But that religion is so fluid and flexible and complex doesn’t make it right, and the obsessive, fanatical weirdness of this unique version of Catholicism is the product of its unfamiliarity; if you step back and look at it with eyes unfilmed by tradition, every religious ceremony looks this bizarre, and every religion thrives on hope built on despair… and some try to maximize the suffering to reinforce devotion. At least the modern Aztecs draw the line before raising obsidian knives and chopping out hearts nowadays; they seemed to be having more fun than the bloody kneed Catholics.

And Sullivan observes very correctly:

"Bizarre", "weird": the adjectives reflect Myers’s projection, not the "fluid and flexible and complex" phenomena he also sees in front of him. You could, of course, inquire further into the resilient, mysterious and clearly powerful rituals he is witnessing. But that would require his admission that there is much human conduct here he doesn’t understand – instead of the assertion that it is religion and that he therefore knows all he needs to know about it.

And that is it: “the assertion that it is religion and that he therefore knows all he needs to know about it” keeps Atheists such as PZ Myers unable to even consider something that may be scientifically acceptable.

Be sure to read Sullivan’s full posting: Wreathed In A Fog Of Smugness – The Daily Dish | By Andrew Sullivan

Russian One Shroud of Turin in the Works

Here is a link to the story about a Russian film crew that was in Colorado Springs this past week to shoot interviews with the John and Rebecca Jacksons for a documentary about the Shroud of Turin. It is to be broadcast near Eastertide on Channel One Russia. The Moscow-based station has an estimated 150 million viewers.

I understand that Barry Schwortz was also interviewed for the show.

Good video of how carbon 14 dating works

Good video on how carbon dating works. Well worth watching if you don’t know how it works and why it is accurate and useful – and why mistakes happen (as with the shroud).

Interesting Meditation on Several Images of Jesus Including the Shroud of Turin

The Holy Face of Jesus from original sources such as the Shroud of Turin, etc. as well as many inspired paintings is contemplated with prayers from the Holy face Devotion and “Love Being Loved By You” by Rebecca St.James.

Meditation on the Holy face of Jesus accompanied by song from Rebecca St. James.000

The Face of Forgiveness

imageThe Divine Remedy has another great posting. It concludes (and you should read up to these last sentences here.

The image on the cloth of the Shroud is a road map of the capacity for human sin. The record of torture and suffering is encoded in a way that we can witness but cannot explain.

But the face…the face is the gift of the serenity of forgiveness. In gazing upon it, we fall into His protection, into our innate purity, into the divine remedy within…

John and Rebecca Jackson Starting Shroud of Turin School

imageWe failed to mention in the last posting about Channel One Russia filming a documentary that according to Mike Barna, John and Rebecca

[ John and Rebecca Jackson ] told me they plan to start a shroud school called “School for Shroud Studies” in January. They will have beginner, intermediate and advanced classes. Those in advanced classes will perform actual shroud research, John Jackson said. No cost structure has been  set up yet.

Learn more about the classes and the Turin Shroud Center of Colorado Springs at www.shroudofturin.com.

Russian TV Crew Shooting TV Special on the Shroud of Turin « Shroud of Turin Blog

Russian TV Crew Shooting TV Special on the Shroud of Turin


Come to find out that a Russian TV crew was in Colorado Spring just this past week to shoot footage for a documentary on the Shroud of Turin. According to Mike Barna of Colorado Spring’s The Gazette:

The crew is shooting for Channel One Russia, one of the largest broadcast stations in Russia. Expected audience for the documentary premiering next April is 150 million. The crew was in town to interview shroud experts John and Rebecca Jackson.

According to the paper, there will be more about this in the paper on Saturday. So check back in.

All those happy people are from Channel One Russia’s home page. Reminds me of the opening number on the Drew Carey Show.

Clear Explanation of the Problem with the Carbon Dating of the Shroud of Turin

The video is about ten minutes long and is, in my opinion, the best segment I have seen explaining invisible reweaving.

Radiocarbon Dating and the Shroud of Turin

Fairly good explanation of carbon dating over at RespectDrugs.com: Plants, Drugs, Chemicals, Books, Psychology, and Society.

We discuss the famed Turin Shroud in a chemistry context, including how radiocarbon dating has famously been used on the religious relic. More chemistry at http://www.periodicvideos.com Correction: It’s a proton and electron COMBINING to create C14… I made the poor Professor stand in the? Italian sun for so long waiting for the right light conditions? that I may have temporarily fried his brain. Correction is included as an annotaion. Our trip to Turin supported by www.cost.esf.org 


Radiocarbon & Turin Shroud – Periodic Table of Videos | RespectDrugs.com

“Not very tasteful back-lit reproduction of the Shroud of Turin”

We went inside [St Mary’s and St Joseph’s Catholic Cathedral in Armidale, Australia] and it had all the trimmings: stained glass, lots of statues, paintings, a mosaic floor and even this strange little side chapel, featuring a not very tasteful back-lit reproduction of the Shroud of Turin!


rover all over: Beards and History

Shroud of Turin on The ‘X’ Zone Radio & TV Show: Wednesday, November 17

Wednesday, November 17 2010: Today on The ‘X’ Zone Radio Show with Rob McConnell

The following interviews can be heard starting at 10 pm – 2 am Eastern / 7 pm – 11 pm Pacific (Network 1) 2 am – 6 am Eastern / 11 pm – 2 am Pacific (Network 2) 6 pm – 10 pm Eastern / 3 pm – 7 pm Pacific on The TalkStar Radio Network from our Washington DC Affiliate at http://radiotime.com/WebTuner.aspx?StationId=100596&ProgramId=149441& or Apple iTunes at http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=295327298 or at The ‘X’ Zone Podcast website at http://www.xzonepodcast.com/

It is segment two starting an hour in, 11 pm EST and 8 pm PST for one hour

DR ANDREW SILVERMAN, MD – The Shroud of Turin – Dr Andrew Silverman is a medical doctor who has been interested since childhood in the nature of what we are as human beings and what our potential is.He first became aware of the Turin Shroud on seeing a life-size photographic print of it at Nigel Kerner’s house around 30 years ago. Dr Silverman has always been fascinated to know how the image could have formed and when he spoke to Nigel Kerner about it many years ago he explained his theory to him that light is frozen thought and matter is frozen light. Kerner also postulated that human transfiguration into light was a consequence of living a life as suggested and shown by the man whose image is on the shroud. Dr.Silverman gave a presentation in May this year at a scientific workshop in Frascati Italy discussing his and Nigel Kerner’s ideas about the Shroud of Turin and how the image might have been formed. Dr. Silverman’s full Paper will be published soon in the Proceedings of the Workshop: but here is the link to the abstract:

References: http://www.acheiropoietos.info/abstracts/talks-for-tex-phi.html#philosophywww.nigelkerner.com

Christians in Iraq

David Nona, chairman of the Chaldean Federation of America, says:

It is very ironic that the last legacy of this war in Iraq, which was intended to change hearts and minds in the Arab and Islamic world toward the West is bringing about the extinction of one of the oldest Christian communities in the world.

There were 1.2 million Christians in Iraq before the war. There are now only about 500,000.

CNN Story: For Iraqi Christians, fear is knocking – CNN.com

More over at the Catholic Herald

Proved or Not Proved. That is the Question.

Stephen Jones corrects me. Correctly so!

. . . that I don’t believe there will be any more evidence found IN THE BIBLE that supports the Shroud being authentic does not mean that I believe the Shroud has not been proved to be authentic.

I DO believe the Shroud has been PROVED to be authentic. Not in an absolute mathematical or philosophical sense, but in the SCIENTIFIC sense of the preponderance of the balance of the evidence for and against.

Every day criminals are jailed and even executed, having been convicted by courts on far less forensic and circumstantial evidence than there is that points to the Shroud to be authentic.

In agreeing with Stephen’s point that more evidence is not to be found in the Bible, I accidentally implied that Jones and I were in agreement about proving that the Shroud of Turin is authentic. As you can see, Stephen thinks that authenticity has been proved. He is not alone. A significant number of scholars agree.

I don’t agree, however. I think it is real. I believe it is real. I think, as I say in my post, that we can infer it is. I think, however, that the proof is elusive. The whole argument may have to do with how we define proof and how we establish criteria.

My apologies to Stephen for misrepresenting his point of view. Stephen Jones on the Shroud of Turin blood evidence « Shroud of Turin Blog

Archbishop Dolan Elected President of the Conference of Catholic Bishops

image New York Archbishop Timothy Dolan was chosen Tuesday as the next leader of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops.

Dolan defeated Bishop Gerald F. Kicanas of Tucson, Arizona, and eight others to win the three-year term. The vote was 128-111, according to conference spokesman Don Clemmer.

Dolan will replace Cardinal Francis George, who did not run for re-election.

CNN Belief Blog – CNN.com Blogs