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The Imams Who Came to See the Shroud

April 21, 2015

imageA Google translation of a story in Avvenire, an Italian language Catholic-focused daily newspaper about a group of imams who came to see the shroud:

There are some imams today in Turin with visitors queuing to admire in the Cathedral of the Holy Shroud. Among them,Mohamed Bahreddine, national president of the League of Imams . "It’s the first time we visit the Shroud. We want to broaden the dialogue – he said – our presence is a strong signal after what has happened in the world. We want to lead by example. We want to appeal to all, we are all brothers. Today we need closeness, to show that we are united, there is no need to say no to violence. " "We are for the maximum integration – said Amir Younes, head of the Intercultural Center Mecca of Turin – there is much interest in the Shroud and we are here to enrich our knowledge. Our presence is a sign of integration. "

Bahreddine and Younes drove in all’ostensione visit the Shroud, a group of Muslims. "Even to your celebrations for the end of Ramadan there are always representatives of the Church – explained Bahreddine – why we decided to come to give a signal, to say that we are all brothers and that we are citizens of this country is in this city" . "You – he added – a space to expand the dialogue and, especially after the dramatic events that are happening in recent months, we are here to launch a new appeal and say that we are all brothers." "Today we really need – intervened Younes – to demonstrate the closeness between Christians and Muslims, to say no to all forms of terrorism and violence and yes to living together. You have to be strong together."

With the group of Muslims was also don Tino Negri, director of the Diocesan Centre for Christian-Islamic dialogue Peirone Frederick. "I’m glad of this participation – he says – is the sign of a desire for integration and acceptance of religious and cultural differences."

At the end of the visit the representatives of the Muslim community have commented: "Today we have added to our culture another important piece and we hope we have given a beautiful message of brotherhood." "It is a journey through time and history – said Mohamed Bahreddine – where we saw the figure of Jesus in the vision of the Christian brothers. " For Amir Younes, "there is something that touches the soul, it is a moment that brings together people towards peace, a moment of which today we have much need and that is what we hope to happen even in our territories where war is waged for nothing. "

  1. April 21, 2015 at 7:06 am

    Dan,

    This an exceptionally important post. It is quite possible that the fanatics of ISIL have slaughtered more Moslems than Christians but there is no question that we are witnessing the most devastating persecutions of Christians in centuries,

    The Shroud is a healing revelation.

    http://johnklotz.blogspot.com

  2. April 21, 2015 at 7:08 am

    Good.

  3. April 21, 2015 at 7:14 am

    https://shroudstory.com/2015/04/21/the-imams-who-came-to-see-the-shroud/

    As some of you may know, I have published a book “The Coming of the Quantum Christ: The shroud of Turin and the Apocalypse of Selfishness.

    It may seem an odd topic for some but a posting today on the Shroudstory blog brings it in to stark relevance particularly with the atrocities being committed by the fanatics of ISIL
    (As evil as their persecution of Christians have been, it is maybe that they have slaughtered more Moslems that Christians).

    The story is this: a group of Moslems visited the current exposition of the Shroud in Turin as a gesture of unity of all humanity.
    See https://shroudstory.com/2015/04/21/the-imams-who-came-to-see-the-shroud/

    And if you are interested in what my book is about: http://johnklotz.blogspot.com There reviews and comments on that posting.

    In Chapter two of the book, quote Elaine Pagels writing in her book the Gnsotic Gospels:
    https://shroudstory.com/2015/04/21/the-imams-who-came-to-see-the-shroud/ (It was a part of my Christmas posting on my blog.)

    Orthodox Christianity teaches that the tree of faith was enriched by the blood of the martyrs. Elaine Pagels, hardly a Vatican favorite, concluded that the example set by the Christian martyrs was in fact a key to orthodox Christianity’s ascendancy over its gnostic competitors.

    “No doubt the persecutions terrified many into avoiding contact with Christians, but Justin and Tertullian both say that the sight of martyrs aroused the wonder and admiration that impelled them to investigate the movement, and then to join it. And both attest that this happened to many others. (As Justin remarked: “The more such things happen, the more do others, in larger numbers, become believers.”) Tertullian writes in defiance to Scapula, the proconsul of Carthage: ‘Your cruelty is our glory … All who witness the noble patience of [the martyrs], are struck with misgivings, are inflamed with desire to examine the situation … and as soon as they come to know the truth, they immediately enroll themselves as its disciples.’[i]”

    Pagels then puts martyrdom in the context of Christ’s life in words that echo Pasternak:

    “In its portrait of Christ’s life and his passion, orthodox teaching offered a means of interpreting fundamental elements of human experience. Rejecting the gnostic view that Jesus was a spiritual being, the orthodox insisted that he, like the rest of humanity, was born, lived in a family, became hungry and tired, ate and drank wine, suffered and died. They even went so far as to insist that he rose bodily from the dead. Here again, as we have seen, orthodox tradition implicitly affirms bodily experience as the central fact of human life. What one does physically—one eats and drinks, engages in sexual life or avoids it, saves one’s life or gives it up—all are vital elements in one’s religious development. But those gnostics who regarded the essential part of every person as the “inner spirit” dismissed such physical experience, pleasurable or painful, as a distraction from spiritual reality—indeed, as an illusion. No wonder, then, that far more people identified with the orthodox portrait than with the “bodiless spirit” of gnostic tradition. Not only the martyrs, but all Christians who have suffered for 2,000 years, who have feared and faced death, have found their experience validated in the story of the human Jesus.”[ii]

    .

  4. April 21, 2015 at 2:54 pm

    Quran, 4:157, translation M.H. Shakir:

    And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa son of Marium, the apostle of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Isa) and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure.

    The testimony of the Shroud shows otherwise…

  5. Louis
    April 21, 2015 at 4:02 pm

    One of them is quoted as saying “there is no need to say no to violence.” What was that? A Freudian slip?
    Anyway, there are two versions, one saying Jesus was taken up to heaven, the other that he went to India and lies buried in Kashmir:
    https://www.academia.edu/7893085/The_Quest_for_Jesus_in_Shroud_research

  6. Paul
    April 21, 2015 at 8:44 pm

    educate yourself about the teachings of Islam. one which is that lying to spread Islam is appropriate.

  7. Angel
    April 22, 2015 at 5:43 pm

    Louis
    April 22, 2015 at 9:40 am

    “Hi Angel

    Actually the problem has gone beyond ISIL and is getting worse as each day goes by. Read this:”

    http://www.pakistanchristianpost.com/
    and this:
    http://www.archdioceseofbombay.org/
    This is extremely serious.

    ***Angel says: Yes, Louis it is deadly serious, but remember, as well, there today, here tomorrow.

    What I find to be exceedingly abominable is Christians neither destroy the holy places of other religious groups, nor the historical holy artifacts held within.

    Yet, the prophecies trumpeting the end of the age are being fulfilled on a daily basis. And what exists currently (on a global scale) are only the forces of evil, greed and corruption.

    If others, aside from Christians, would practice the command laid down by Jesus: “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you,” light would surely outweigh the darkness.

    Take care, Louis!

    Best,

  8. Hugh Farey
    April 22, 2015 at 6:02 pm

    “What I find to be exceedingly abominable is Christians neither destroy the holy places of other religious groups, nor the historical holy artifacts held within.” Really? That’s awful! If we behave as they behave, we are no better than they. Do unto others as you would have them do to you, not do unto others what they actually do to you.

  9. Angel
    April 22, 2015 at 6:27 pm

    ***Angel says: Hi Hugh,

    I stated, others, aside from Christians.

    Meant to mean, other religious groups should do unto Christians, as Christians do unto them.

    In short, we Christians do not desecrate their mosques or temples and they should not damage our holy sites.

    Best,

  10. Angel
    April 22, 2015 at 6:33 pm

    Hugh,

    Oh, I see how it reads now. Initially, I had the last paragraph directly under the paragraph you quoted, and I switched it before posting.

    Previously:

    What I find to be exceedingly abominable is Christians neither destroy the holy places of other religious groups, nor the historical holy artifacts held within.
    If others, aside from Christians, would practice the command laid down by Jesus: “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you,” light would surely outweigh the darkness.

    Funny!

    Best,

  11. Louis
    April 22, 2015 at 6:39 pm

    Angel, I see that you are concerned, but I’m sorry to tell you that your reasoning is flawed.
    That is not the correct way of thinking. The fanatics have taken advantage of the secular West to slaughter Christians in many countries. Today it is in the East,tomorrow it will be in the West. The question of revenge does not arise, the leaders should change their approach.

    • Angel
      April 23, 2015 at 3:49 pm

      Louis, I do not mean revenge.

      What I stated is the Muslims should place themselves in the shoes of Christians and realize or understand we show love and respect for their religion and they should do the same with regard to ours. This is mutual respect and an example of both groups following the Golden Rule.

      Treat others as you would like to be treated. :)

      Best,

      • Louis
        April 23, 2015 at 5:42 pm

        Hi Angel
        That’s all right. What you suggest is easier said than done because scriptures of different groups are involved.
        Best.

        • Angel
          April 23, 2015 at 5:55 pm

          Sadly, that is the case Louis.

          Best,

        • Louis
          April 24, 2015 at 6:56 pm

          Good for you, Angel. I’m glad you understood what I meant.
          Best.

  12. Louis
  13. Hugh Farey
    April 23, 2015 at 1:41 am

    Ah! Yes! I thought I couldn’t have understood you properly.

    • Angel
      April 24, 2015 at 6:23 pm

      Hi Hugh,

      Yes, my point was if everyone, regardless of their religious beliefs, followed the Golden Rule posited by Jesus, we would not have chaos and unrest in the world. And that would equate to heaven on earth. Correct? :)

      Best,

  14. Louis
    April 23, 2015 at 6:21 am

    Great, it didn’t come from me, but from a leader.

  15. Louis
    • Angel
      April 25, 2015 at 9:00 pm

      That will never happen Louis, since the powers that be desire a one-world religion. Last I heard it was referred to as Chrislam.

  16. Louis
    April 23, 2015 at 7:07 am

    Episcopal Bishop John Spong continues to talk about things about which he himself seems to understand little. According to Professor Luke Timothy Johnson, an ex-monk, and one of the topmost US biblical scholars, having a bishop like him in a church is like calling a plumber who wants to rethink pipes.
    Spong does not understand that Hinduism is not really a religion, it is a philosophy of life. It has some very good principles and some eight schools of interpretation and is filled with contradictions. You cannot compare it with Christianity, which falls in the category of revealed religion.
    That is not to say that we cannot learn from Hinduism. Many good things can be found there. It has also absorbed Christ, as avatar, but then who can ignore him?

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