Great images to ponder
Carlos has sent a series of links on the dislocated shoulder question that Vatican Insider had written about as though it was new news. (See: Breaking News: New Injury Details Seen on the Shroud of Turin). Carlos provides linkage to the blog, La Sábana y los Escépticos
- Shoulder Dislocation
- The dislocated shoulder …. or can "look and not see”
- The dislocation of the shoulder in the iconography
This is fascinating information. Google and Bing do excellent translations, particularly if you are using, respectively, the associated browsers Chrome or Internet Explorer.
Thank you very much, Dan¡
I believe the dislocated shoulder has been identified before. I am interested in any information of when the examination took lace and was this actually the Shroud or a well preserved copy that was examined?
This is a fascinating paper, and sent me back to Barta & Carrascosa’s paper: The Shroud of Turin and its Ancient Copies. http://www.academicjournals.org/article/article1380797649_Barta%20and%20Carrascosa.pdf
The illustrations in both papers are not always as clear as one would like, but would anyone like to refute, with clearer illustrations, the following generalisation regarding all pre-fire copies of the Shroud:
“If there are no burn-marks on a copy of the shroud, there are no blood trickles down the arms either.” This has obvious corollaries..
Or am I “denying demonstrated facts by suppositions which have no basis in fact”?
Did Mel Gibson do some research before shooting the crucifixion scene in his film?
For the best illustration of “the dislocated shoulder” in conjunction with a naked Christ, see The Baptism of Christ, Ingeborg Psalter. c.1200. Musée Condé, Chantilly, Ms 9 olim 1695. “The Master of the Ingeborg Psalter” painted the miniature shortly after 1205.
Thanks for the exact image link. I see the nakedness aspect, but not the separated shoulder. Isn’t the line on Jesus’ left shoulder simply an artistic convention trying to show depth? Why would Jesus have a separated shoulder at the baptism, an event that happened well before the way of the cross?
Three-quarter depth in frontal image as an artistic convention, are you kidding? Had Christ been turned three-quarters to the left, it would have made sense with a three-quarter hidden right arm. Besides most likely if this is a copy of a miniature based on the Man of the Shroud, chronology of events would be here irrelevant.
For an illustration of this please see the Baptism of Christ in the Saint-Alban Psalter, end of the 1100s.
But again I ask, why show Christ with a dislocated shoulder at the Baptism? Is the inference that Jesus may have had a dislocated shoulder from some earlier incident in his life and it is not associated with his Passion? Why show this singular anatomical irregularity?
– Paleopathologically speaking, most likely the TS stark-naked crucifixion victim’s arms were forced in rigor mortis from adduction to abduction for burial purposes.
– Most likely the dislocated shoulder in the miniature is to be decoded in conjunction with Yeshua/the TS man’s stark naked body frontal image as shown on the pre-fire zig-zag patterned Shroud.
– Reminder: Symbolically speaking, the zigzag pattern can stand for water and the long rectangular zig-zag patterned cloth for a river or a ford
On February 23, 2012 at 9:10 am, I wrote:
“If you consider the zigzag weave patterned lengthy sheet (IN CONJUNCTION WITH YESHUA’S STARK NAKED BODY) ,
cannot it evoke the iconographic reduction of a river or ford? VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV”
on March 22, 2014 at 4:14 pm, I wrote:
(…) the TS ‘herringbone’ weave pattern is symbolic of the living waters of the Torah.
I do hope the Ingeborg Psalter Baptism is ‘crystal clear’ illustration as far as dislocated-shouldered stark naked Christ iconography is concerned.
Who is the little fellow sitting on the bottom of the river underneath John the Baptist?
The small reclining figure is that of the river-god (here the Jordan).
The House of Savoy does possess a most interesting pre-fire copy of the TS. Most curiously it is seldom referred to.
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