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Movement of the Shroud after 1355

February 17, 2015

Stephen Jones is putting together a useful movement history for the shroud beginning in 1355:

Montfort (c.1358-1359). In 1358, following the French defeat at the 1356 Battle of Poitiers in which Geoffroy I died, marauding bands of English soldiers attacked French towns, including nearby Troyes. So Jeanne probably took her young son Geoffroy II de Charny (1352–1398), and the Shroud, from Lirey south to the comparative safety of her castle atMontfort-en-Auxois[5].

[ Left (enlarge): Montfort-en-Auxois castle:Burgundy Tourism. ]

Anthon (c.1359-1388) . In c.1359 Jeanne married the wealthy Aymon IV of Geneva (c. 1324-1388) and took Geoffroy II and the Shroud from Montfort to one of Aymon’s estates in High Savoy (that part of France bordering both Switzerland and Italy), probably Anthon.

[ Right (enlarge): Chateau at Anthon built in 1315 by Guichard d’Anthon[6], presumably Aymon IV’s great uncle Guichard VI d’Anthon (c. 1278-1320), which Aymon inherited through his mother Isabelle d’Anthon (c.1307-1335). Presumably Jeanne, Geoffroy II and Aymon IV lived here with the Shroud for ~29 years between 1359 and 1388. ]
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  1. Hugh Farey
    February 17, 2015 at 8:46 am

    Considering this is attempt to produce a definitive Encyclopaedia of the Shroud, a worthy cause, it is a shame that it is illustrated by a map which is admittedly misleading in at least two respects, namely the Templar route to ‘Paris 1307’, which has apparently been discarded, and the position of “Montfort 1418”, which turns out to be in the wrong place. Jones thinks that the Shroud did spend some time in the marked Montfort, but in 1358-1359, after which it moved to Anthon. However he gives no reference for this. The root of the various discussions regarding the Shroud’s movement at this time seems to be M. Bergeret’s Ohio Conference paper on ‘Linceul de Turin – Le Trou Historique’ which says that the Shroud moved to Montfort in 1360 and stayed there till 1389, and Dorothy Crispino’s ‘To know the Truth’ which says that it may have moved directly to Anthon in 1357 and stayed there till 1388. No doubt there are other variations on the theme.

    While the ruined Castle of Montfort is correctly illustrated, the photo of the Anthon Chateau is at Anthon, Isères, not Anthon, Haute Savoie, and is not associated with Aimon de Genève.

  2. piero
    February 17, 2015 at 8:51 am

    Here you can find some notes …

    Some years earlier, in that restless land, took place a process
    against Guichard, bishop of Troyes…

    See also:
    The Debate on the Trial of the Templars (1307–1314)
    Jochen Burgtorf, Paul F. Crawf
    Ashgate Publishing, Ltd., june 28, 2013 – 426 pages

    >Seven hundred years after the dissolution of the order, the trial of the Templars still arouses enormous controversy and speculation. In October 1307, all the brothers of the military-religious order of the Temple in France were arrested on the instructions of King Philip IV and charged with heresy and other crimes. In 1312, Pope Clement V, at the Council of Vienne, dissolved the order. …

    The trial of Bishop Guichard was a complex case whose development can be traced from the summer of 1308 …
    Following the pontifical mandate of August 1308, an investigation took place
    and Guichard was suspected of “enormous crimes and sacrileges”…

    See also:
    “Domus diaboli, un évêque en procès au temps de Philippe le Bel”
    by Alain Provost
    Published 2010 by Belin in Paris
    (written in French).

    “The Templars and the Shroud of Christ”
    by Barbara Frale
    — — —
    >The charges of heresy included spitting, trampling, or urinating on the cross;
    while naked, being kissed obscenely by the receptor on the lips, navel, and
    base of the spine; heresy and worship of idols; institutionalized sodomy; and
    also accusations of contempt of the Holy Mass and denial of the sacraments.
    >Barbara Frale has suggested that these acts were intended to simulate the
    kind of humiliation and torture that a Crusader might be subjected to if captured
    by the Saracens. According to this line of reasoning, they were taught how
    to commit apostasy with the mind only and not with the heart. …

    — — —
    Here an interesting question:

    Le Linceul etait il à Montfort-en-Auxois (à cette époque)?
    See also:
    “La Seigneurie de Montfort en Auxois au fil de siècles”
    Michel et Renée Paquet
    Ed. Mos Forti, 2000

    at p 3 of 12




    (by Hugh Duncan)

    (= … Le Linceul était-il à Montfort en Auxois à cette époque ? Il y a
    cependant une ambigüité importante que nous ne pouvons pas résoudre formellement … …. … … Il est vrai que la seigneurie de Montfort appartenait à la famille deCharny… )
    — — —
    … …Par mariages et successions, le château revient en dot à Jeanne de Vergy qui épouse en 1340 Geoffroy Ier de Charny. Leur petite fille Maguerite épouse en 1400 Jean de Bauffremont qui décède à la bataille d’Azincourt en 1415. C’est son neveu Pierre de Bauffremont qui hérite du château de Montfort.

    • piero
      February 17, 2015 at 8:55 am

      Continuation of the notes:

      >Le linceul arrive à Montfort par la famille de Vergy propriétaire du château de Montfort au XVe siècle.
      >Cette famille serait entrée en possession de cette relique grâce à Othon de la Roche, croisé bourguignon de la quatrième croisade, qui l’aurait pris pendant le sac de Constantinople en 1204. L’existence de cette relique reste secrète dans cette famille jusqu’au milieu du XIVe siècle. L’arrière-petite-fille d’Othon de la Roche, Jeanne de Vergy, épouse Geoffroi de Charny en 1340.
      >Geoffroy de Charny fait le vœu d’édifier une collégiale et d’y déposer le suaire en remerciement à la Sainte-Trinité, à laquelle il attribuait la réussite de son évasion des prisons anglaises. La collégiale est achevée en 1353, Geoffroy de Charny meurt à la bataille de Poitiers (16 septembre 1356), le linceul est déposé à Lirey (Aube) en 1357 par son fils.
      >Le linceul demeure à Lirey jusqu’en 1360. À cette date, l’évêque de Troyes Henri de Poitiers interdit les ostentations, considérant que le linceul doit être faux. Jeanne de Vergy prend peur et met alors le linceul en sécurité dans son château fortifié de Montfort, il y restera 28 ans jusqu’à son décès en 1388. Son fils redonne aux chanoines de Lirey la relique en 1389. Craignant pour la conservation du linceul, pendant la guerre de Cent Ans les chanoines de Lirey, le confient en 1418 à Marguerite de Charny, petite-fille de Geoffroy de Charny qui le plaça à nouveau dans son château de Montfort. Puis il sera déplacé à Saint-Hippolyte (Doubs), un fief de son mari, Humbert de Villersexel.


      I apologize to those who were familiar with these ancient stories…

      • piero
        February 17, 2015 at 9:15 am

        What bothers me is the lack of true connection with
        the Forêt d’Orient (= Forest of the East) …

        Here what I have read:
        >… Quant à la forêt du Temple ( ou forêt d’Orient) , un trésor templier y serait caché… On le cherche toujours , on a envie d’y croire devant la majesté des grands arbres et la beauté de cette forêt à la biodiversité préservée

        Rough translation = …As for the Forest Temple (or Orient Forest), a Templar treasure is hidden … there is always seeking, we want to believe before the majesty of the tall trees and the beauty of the forest to preserve biodiversity

        Where were the Templar Rites in forêt d’Orient ?…


        Here another attempt:
        Now I have found the following book:
        “Guide secret des Templiers Relié” (21 mars 2015 !!!)
        by Thierry Leroy

        Descriptions du produit = Product Descriptions

        Présentation de l’éditeur
        – Des sujets évocateurs : le symbolisme des Templiers, la quête du Graal, les templiers et le saint suaire, le trésor des Templiers, la forêt d Orient, le rituel secret et l admission de chevaliers, la fin des Templiers… – Des textes illustrés par une iconographie à l’ancienne et une couverture imitation cuir.

        Rough Translation = presentation (Editor)
        – Evocative topics: the symbolism of the Knights Templar, the Holy Grail, the Templars and the Shroud, the treasure of the Templars, the forest of the East, the secret ritual and admission of knights, the end of the Templars … – The texts illustrated by an iconography antique and imitation leather cover
        — —
        Biographie de l’auteur
        Historien, doctorant en histoire médiévale à l’université de Reims, Thierry Leroy consacre son travail aux Templiers depuis 30 ans. Il est l auteur de plusieurs livres et articles sur le sujet, notamment la première biographie consacrée à Hugues de Payns, fondateur de l’ordre des Templiers, ainsi que les deux romans : Les croix sanglantes, une enquête de Gondemar le Templier (Pygmalion, 2011) et le Templier et le
        grand secret (Pygmalion, 2014).

        Rough translation = About the Author
        Historian, PhD student in medieval history at the University of Reims, Thierry Leroy dedicated his work to the Knights Templar for 30 years. He is the author of several books and articles on the subject, including the first biography of Hugh of Payens, founder of the Knights Templar, as well as two novels: The bloody cross, a survey Gondemar Templar (Pygmalion, 2011) and the Templar and the great secret (Pygmalion, 2014).

        — — —
        But now I have not more time…

        • piero
          February 18, 2015 at 9:59 am

          Thierry Leroy


          Thierry Leroy est enseignant et historien des Templiers, Titulaire d’un Master en histoire médiévale à l’Université de Reims portant sur Hugues de Payns (le fondateur de l’Ordre des Templiers), il prépare actuellement une thèse sur l’implantation des Templiers en Champagne.

          Membre de la Société Académique de l’Aube, il est également président de la Fondation Hugues de Payns.

          Il est l’auteur de “Hugues de Payns, fondateur de l’Ordre du Temple” (éd. La Maison du Boulanger, 2001) qui a reçu le Prix des Arts et Belles lettres de la Société Académique de l’Aube en 2000 et les “Templiers : Légendes et histoire” (Imago, 2007) qui a reçu le Prix littéraire du Conseil Général en 2007.

          Rough translation:
          >Thierry Leroy Thierry Leroy is a teacher and historian of the Templars, holds a Master in medieval history at the University of Reims on Hugues de Payens (the founder of the Knights Templar), he is currently writing a thesis on the implementation Templar in Champagne.
          > Member of the Academic Society of the Dawn, he is also Chairman of the Fondation Hugues de Payens.
          > He is the author of “Hugues de Payens, founder of the Order of the Temple” (ed. La Maison du Boulanger, 2001), which received the Award of Arts and Belles Lettres of the Academic Society of Dawn in 2000 and the “Templar Legends and History” (Imago, 2007) which received the Literary Award of the General Council in 2007.
          —- —-
          Here another link:

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