A point now where science and religion are in fact treading on the same ground

imageIn my previous posting, New Atheist vs Old Atheist Debate, I quoted from John Klotz, a good friend of this blog. from his blog about a year ago, For readability, I quote him again:

The question of whether human consciousness is a distinct phenomenon that survives death, is at the core of most religious belief. Now, it is becoming a scientific issue as well. Science is dealing with two related phenomena: the existence of human consciousness and the nature of existence of all matter at the quantum level. Science in attempting to explain human consciousness is science attempting to define the soul. Is our consciousness a discreet process that may operate independent of space and time? Or,  is it only an accumulation of sensations that ends when the individual dies and the brain is  rendered inert and decaying? Can  our consciousness operate independent of time and space? Is there any scientific basis for eternal life? Is the Resurrection real?

Now John has leveraged this same posting from his blog in a response to an Opinionator column in the New York Times Online, “Nothing to See Here: Demoting the Uncertainty Principle,” by Craig Callender:

In Arizona, Stuart Hameroff who has written on the nature of consciousness with Nobel winner Roger Penrose argues for that proposition. See http://johnklotz.blogspot.com/2012/08/michael-redux-quantum-mechanics.html

[ . . . You have to read John’s full response]

We are reaching a point now where science and religion are in fact treading on the same ground.

13 thoughts on “A point now where science and religion are in fact treading on the same ground”

  1. Is the Resurrection real?

    My answer : I believe it is. That’s the only honest thing I can say. I cannot say : I know for sure (scientifically speaking) that it is. And I cannot say : I can demonstrate it in a lab. And here’s a truth for anyone out there: Nobody will ever be able to demonstrate it in a lab! How can you prove something that is immaterial and spiritual?

    I can only say that I believe it with all my heart. In fact, I got a strong intuition that it is real, not only for Jesus but for all living creatures ever created by God, including every human being of course. In my mind, all the living things created by the Creator cannot end up in nothingness. That would be a total non sense. And I think Paul agree with me when he say: “ALL creation eagerly waiting for that future day when God will reveal his glory.”

  2. Yannick,

    My point is that through Science and the Shroud, God IS revealing his glory. In the Phenomenon of Man, Teilhard predicted a convergence of science and religion. That time is now. It is honest science that revels the truth of the Crucifixion and, I submit, the Resurrection.

    1. Concerning the Resurrection of Jesus, as I said the other day, I don’t think we will ever be able to go further with our science than this point that has already been reached and that is based on enough converging evidences : Around the year 30 A.D., Jesus of Nazareth, a Jewish prophet died the cross the day before the Jewish Passover feast. Then, on the morning following the Jewish Passover feast, his tomb and his burial shroud was found empty. Then, some disciples of Jesus became totally convinced (so much that some even died for this belief) that he was resurrected and they claimed he appeared to them with a physical body that was not totally the same as the one they knew before his death.

      Seriously, I don’t know how science could reach a point further than this one day… To go further, there should have been cameras set inside the tomb 24/24 and also cameras that would have follow the disciples everywhere in the days following the death of Jesus.

      1. Most important thing to understand versus the point I described in my previous post: This historical fact will never be enough to be considered as a sure proof of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ. This only prove that there were some people who were convinced of the reality and truth of this event. No more. Now, it’s up to anyone to believe their claim or not… I do.

      2. One last thing I really want to say about Jesus’ Resurrection: What is the most important thing in reality is not that much his personal Resurrection, but the resurrection of every human being that his own Resurrection prefigures… That’s the real good news of Jesus Christ!

  3. – Would you exist if your parents had never met? How about if either of your two sets of grandparents had never met? Etc?
    – Your dad probably produced a quintillion or so sperm cells in his lifetime, and your mom probably had several hundred ovum. Would you exist if your particular sperm cell had not met up with your particular ovum?
    – What about all the kids that your Dads sperm cells and Cleopatra’s ovum could have created?
    – How many potential souls (selves, individual consciousnesses) are there?
    – What’s the probability that the time of your existence would be now?
    – Did you HAVE to exist?
    – Why are you a “self”?

    1. I talk recently about that with a very spiritual cistercian monk and he said that, in his mind, these experiences were still very far from the reality we will experiment in God’s Kingdom and he had a pretty good argument to say this: If these experiences were exactly like the reality we will experiment in the Kingdom of Love, these people would never come back to Earth! In other word, for Father Yves Girard, these near death experiences are something like visiting the vestibule of eternity; a place which is still far from God’s Kingdom. I agree with him.

Comments are closed.