great photo. And demonstrates well the true faintness of the image (we get so used to the enhanced images!)
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Perhaps that is how the Shtoud was raised up every Friday in the early 1200s in Constantinople (de Clari)
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Thomas,
No, it wasn’t displayed that way in Constantinople. It was displayed vertically. The frame wasn’t added until the 19th Century.
However, beginning in in Medieval times it was displayed by four or so bishops or priests grasping it on the top as horizontally displayed in this picture without frame. (There are dozens of surviving paintings of the displays made before the invention of photography.)
One thing to note is the clear indication that the upper two corners of the edging strip had been removed. The Rayes and carbon dating samples were taken just below the the upper left hand corner (as viewed)
The frequent viewings caused the corners to fray. The edge was removed and the fraying required repair. The carbon samples were taken from the repaired area. The FACT of the repairs has been confirmed by recent expert analysis.
John how do you know it wasn’t raised up this way? If it was raised vertically, how? And what evidence do you have?
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I believe the LeCari remembrance is pretty clear on that. What the spectators were seeing was just the front image not the back. The back image displays His naked buttocks and would have been a scandal. Also, John Jackson identified crease marks on the Shroud consistent with folding for that kind of display.
The image of Christ is buck-naked on the Shroud. Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus had to break rigor mortis becasue his arms at the time death were outstretched on the cross and he in fact hung on the cross for some indeterminate time after he died. The image is consistent with the rigor mortis being broken at his shoulders an his arms being drawn down and covering his genitals.
As a matter of fact, as I recall the all too many wakes I have attended, the fully clothed body of the corpse had its hands crossed as displayed in the image. Often at a Catholic wake with a rosary in the hands.
Apparently the URLS are two long to work in the format of the blog and disconnect with a line break. If you are interested, you can copy them and eliminate the line break manually. Then they will work.
If you have doubts about the repairs, it’s worth the effort. I can E-Mail anyone who has difficulty and is interested, klotzlaw@gmail.com
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Stephen J notes in his commentary that 1933 being declared a Holy Year, the Shroud was also put on display that year, and was viewed by Pierre Barbet. The above photo apparently taken during the 1931 exposition, when the Shroud was brought out onto the cathedral steps, seems somewhat similar to an incident reported by Barbet on p.17 of his “Doctor at Cavalry”.
Barbet reports that on Sunday October 15th, 1933, the Shroud was taken out of its heavy frame from under glass, and twenty-five prelates bore it in its light frame out on to the terrace of the cathedral, so that it might be viewed and venerated directly by the crowd. The sun had just set on the opposite side of the square and the bright but diffused light was ideal for viewing. Barbet was standing on the steps of the cathedral, in front of a double line of foot soldiers, and was able to view the Shroud closely, at a distance of less than a metre. He comments on how the difference in the colour of the bloodstains from those of the image then struck him, and saw that the stains had sunk into the material colouring it, and how it dawned on him why the images of the wounds are positive and all the rest is negative, and comments on this experience at length.
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typo — “Doctor at Calvary”, I’ve always confused Calvary & Cavalry, probably reading too many Western comics when an altar-boy!
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John…..(re:) “I believe the LeCari remembrance is pretty clear on that.” I believe you meant de Clari as in Robert de Clari, the French knight who chronicled what you are referring to.
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Yes
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Thankyou for posting this.
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Comments are closed.
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great photo. And demonstrates well the true faintness of the image (we get so used to the enhanced images!)
Perhaps that is how the Shtoud was raised up every Friday in the early 1200s in Constantinople (de Clari)
Thomas,
No, it wasn’t displayed that way in Constantinople. It was displayed vertically. The frame wasn’t added until the 19th Century.
However, beginning in in Medieval times it was displayed by four or so bishops or priests grasping it on the top as horizontally displayed in this picture without frame. (There are dozens of surviving paintings of the displays made before the invention of photography.)
One thing to note is the clear indication that the upper two corners of the edging strip had been removed. The Rayes and carbon dating samples were taken just below the the upper left hand corner (as viewed)
The frequent viewings caused the corners to fray. The edge was removed and the fraying required repair. The carbon samples were taken from the repaired area. The FACT of the repairs has been confirmed by recent expert analysis.
Skepics might want to check my article published on Shroud.com http://www.shroud.com/pdfs/klotzcnn.pdf
It is a critique of CNN’s Finding Jesus program on the Shroud. I cite in footnotes 27 & 28:
http://www.shroudofturinexhibition.com/Shroud_of_Turin_exhibition/Thomas_Ferguson_files/Updated_report_on
_the_Consideration_to_the_Uniformity_and_Effects_of_the_Fabric_in_the_Shroud_of_Turin-5-1.pdf
http://www.shroudofturinexhibition.com/Shroud_of_Turin_exhibition/Three_threads_files/BL%20Sebastian%20for%2
0website%201.pdf
John how do you know it wasn’t raised up this way? If it was raised vertically, how? And what evidence do you have?
I believe the LeCari remembrance is pretty clear on that. What the spectators were seeing was just the front image not the back. The back image displays His naked buttocks and would have been a scandal. Also, John Jackson identified crease marks on the Shroud consistent with folding for that kind of display.
The image of Christ is buck-naked on the Shroud. Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus had to break rigor mortis becasue his arms at the time death were outstretched on the cross and he in fact hung on the cross for some indeterminate time after he died. The image is consistent with the rigor mortis being broken at his shoulders an his arms being drawn down and covering his genitals.
As a matter of fact, as I recall the all too many wakes I have attended, the fully clothed body of the corpse had its hands crossed as displayed in the image. Often at a Catholic wake with a rosary in the hands.
The footnote URL’s have a break in the middle and don’t work.
These should:
http://www.shroudofturinexhibition.com/Shroud_of_Turin_exhibition/Thomas_Ferguson_files/Updated_report_on _the_Consideration_to_the_Uniformity_and_Effects_of_the_Fabric_in_the_Shroud_of_Turin-5-1.pdf
http://www.shroudofturinexhibition.com/Shroud_of_Turin_exhibition/Three_threads_files/BL%20Sebastian%20for%2 0website%201.pdf
Apparently the URLS are two long to work in the format of the blog and disconnect with a line break. If you are interested, you can copy them and eliminate the line break manually. Then they will work.
If you have doubts about the repairs, it’s worth the effort. I can E-Mail anyone who has difficulty and is interested,
klotzlaw@gmail.com
Stephen J notes in his commentary that 1933 being declared a Holy Year, the Shroud was also put on display that year, and was viewed by Pierre Barbet. The above photo apparently taken during the 1931 exposition, when the Shroud was brought out onto the cathedral steps, seems somewhat similar to an incident reported by Barbet on p.17 of his “Doctor at Cavalry”.
Barbet reports that on Sunday October 15th, 1933, the Shroud was taken out of its heavy frame from under glass, and twenty-five prelates bore it in its light frame out on to the terrace of the cathedral, so that it might be viewed and venerated directly by the crowd. The sun had just set on the opposite side of the square and the bright but diffused light was ideal for viewing. Barbet was standing on the steps of the cathedral, in front of a double line of foot soldiers, and was able to view the Shroud closely, at a distance of less than a metre. He comments on how the difference in the colour of the bloodstains from those of the image then struck him, and saw that the stains had sunk into the material colouring it, and how it dawned on him why the images of the wounds are positive and all the rest is negative, and comments on this experience at length.
typo — “Doctor at Calvary”, I’ve always confused Calvary & Cavalry, probably reading too many Western comics when an altar-boy!
John…..(re:) “I believe the LeCari remembrance is pretty clear on that.” I believe you meant de Clari as in Robert de Clari, the French knight who chronicled what you are referring to.
Yes
Thankyou for posting this.