And this kind of thinking is why many will never be convinced
about the Shroud of Turin
Not too long ago we peeked in on a Shroud of Turin discussion in the JREF Forum (Savage Treatment in Randi Land). JREFers are the hardnosed, mostly Atheist, highly-skeptical-of-anything-religious crowd: people like James Randi, Joe Nickell, many of the CSICOP crowd. Now we find a new discussion thread, started just a couple of days ago on BibleForum.org. I’m not sure about how to characterize this forum but you might get an idea:
theelderofgod starts things off by embedding the YouTube of Shroud of Turin: The New Evidence (Go ahead and click on it if you didn’t watch it earlier – in four parts. It is an hour and 15 minutes long).
He then writes:
I use to be a skeptic,but after a lot of reseach it’s hard to deny that something isn’t here.
Francis Drake responds:
Who really cares about the authenticity of a piece of idolatrous rag. Does it in any way add to our growth in the Holy Spirit, or does it gain kudos for a pagan system of worship
An hour and 15 min? Do you have cliffs???
theelderofgod, seemingly incredulous writes:
You don’t care about what might very well be the shroud that Christ was wrapped in??If it is legit the disciples thought enough to take it…just saying.And no it doesn’t take from or add to my faith.I find it HIGHLY interesting!
chad jumps in with a copy and paste from Wikipedia:
Religious beliefs about the burial cloths of Jesus have existed for centuries. The Gospels of Matthew[27:59–60], Mark[15:46] and Luke[23:53] state that Joseph of Arimathea wrapped the body of Jesus in a piece of linen cloth and placed it in a new tomb. The Gospel of John[19:38–40] refers to strips of linen used by Joseph of Arimathea and John[20:6–7] states that Apostle Peter found multiple pieces of burial cloth after the tomb was found open, strips of linen cloth for the body and a separate cloth for the head.
Although pieces of burial cloths of Jesus are held by at least four churches in France and three in Italy, none has gathered as much religious following as the Shroud of Turin. The religious beliefs and practices associated with the shroud predate historical and scientific discussions and have continued in the 21st century, although the Catholic Church has never passed judgment on its authenticity. An example is the Holy Face Medal bearing the image from the shroud, worn by some Catholics.
[ . . . you can read it in Wikipedia if you want ]
Reynolds357 tells us:
I do not care if it is real or not. If it is real, so what? You see a generic image of a face. I know Jesus had a face. I’m not trying to be sarcastic, but why would we really care if it is real? Is it going to do anything for you?
Jayne is very specific with Bible references:
Doesn’t the Bible say that after his death that Jesus didn’t even look human? I don’t see much signs of physical suffering in the shroud to cause someone to not look human. I’ve always been a doubter of the shroud.
(Isaiah 52:14) The Suffering Servant
"Just as many were astonished at you,– so his appearance was disfigured so to lose resemblance with man, so his form was marred beyond recognition as a man."
Also the face on the shroud doesn’t match the description of the abuse that Jesus suffered prophesied by Isaiah in describing the Suffering Servant and described by Matthew, Mark, and Peter.
- Isaiah 50:6 – "I offered my back to those who beat me and my cheeks to those who pulled out my beard. I did not hide my face from mockery and spitting."
- Mark 15:19 – "Again and again they struck him on the head with a staff and spit on him."
- Matthew 27:30 – "They spit on him, and took the staff and struck him on the head again and again."
- Isaiah 52:13-14 – "See, My Servant will act wisely; He will be raised and lifted up and greatly exalted. Just as many were appalled at You – His appearance was so disfigured that He did not look like a man, and His form did not resemble a human being—"
Skipping past some other folks to continue with another entry by Jayne:
This thought isn’t original with me, but why would Jesus defy the 2nd commandment and create a "graven image" unto himself? But this next question is my thinking. I can’t find where Peter and John took the strips of cloth that they found in the empty tomb. What I can find is that they saw the strips of cloth with the head piece folded and then walked away NOT understanding that Jesus had been resurrected. (And it was strips of cloth according to the Bible: ""Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury" (John 19:40 KJV)"