Amina Khan of the Los Angeles Times in Thinking can undermine religious faith reports on a study in Science:
Scientists have revealed one of the reasons why some folks are less religious than others: They think more analytically, rather than going with their gut. And thinking analytically can cause religious belief to wane — for skeptics and true believers alike.
The study, published in Friday’s edition of the journal Science, indicates that belief may be a more malleable feature of the human psyche than those of strong faith may think.
Interesting reading. Then Tom Lyberg at the Wired Jesus Podcast add this:
No surprise here. People are wired differently and you can’t put God under a microscope. Therein lies the flaw of fundamentalism – you can’t analytically prove God and and if you spend your life trying to find Noah’s ark, prove the shroud of Turin, or defend a 5,000 year history of a short earth, not only will you end up frustrated, you will miss out on God’s activity around you right now.
In my studies of the Shroud of Turin, I have not encountered many fundamentalists. When I do they are usually citing scripture to “prove” the shroud is not real. But what Lyberg writes is probably true of many non-fundamentalists who are trying to prove that the shroud is real in order to prove the Resurrection and the existence of God.
Most shroudies that I know accept modern science on evolution and the age of the universe and know that the story of Noah’s ark is mythology.
I for one do not believe ‘entirely’ in what we have been told about evolution, in fact the theory of evolution is not a fact at all, just speculation. There is no ‘actual’ proof to most of it. I believe in creation but unlike some others I don’t believe the earth, man etc; were created only in the past 5-7 thousand years, thats just ludicrous. Noah’s Ark, a myth? Maybe, but maybe based on ‘some’ reality, who knows. I don’t agree that people should use the Shroud as a means to prove there is a God, that’s just not right. But to defend the Shroud as being authentic, there is nothing wrong in that. As I know it is real, but don’t ask me how I can be so sure, …a gut feeling?, no, I would describe the feeling as more from the heart & soul.
R
– The following is something I wrote a while back. Could be that I would now change some of the wording… Whatever, I agree with Ron that “gut” is the wron g word.
Moving right along — it turns out that the two hemispheres of the human brain process information differently. One hemisphere processes “holistically,” whereas the other processes “analytically.”
In other words, one hemisphere sees the ‘forest’, while the other sees the ‘trees.’
Typically, it is the right hemisphere that sees the forest, whereas it is the left hemisphere that sees the trees – but not always.
Whatever, we humans have two qualitatively different ways of looking at, or thinking about, the world…
And then, it turns out that our “sense” of magic originates in the holistic hemisphere. The holistic hemisphere is responsible for what we call “religious experience” and our sense of transcendence (the very germ of God).
The analytic hemisphere has little or no “truck” with such things. Unfortunately, the analytic hemisphere is also the one that decides whether or not something “makes sense.”
In other words, our “magical” beliefs are sensed — or imagined — by one hemisphere, but they are judged by the other hemisphere. They are judged by the hemisphere that cannot sense — or imagine — them… What sense does that make?
Whatever … either our analytic hemisphere is transcendence-blind (as in “color-blind”), or our holistic hemisphere hallucinates…
(In truth, this kind of hallucinating would make some sense in terms of evolutionary theory or natural selection.)
And by the way, we now have a new science called “Neurotheology” – reasonably enough, it studies the neurology of “religious experience”… (Google)(Try http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurotheology)
So, the holistic hemisphere is the one that “believes in” things; the analytic hemisphere “makes sense” of things.
And, this explains why we humans can honestly “believe in” something that doesn’t “make sense” to us…
Then, it turns out that each of us humans tends to be dominated by one hemisphere or the other (especially us men) — and therefore, by one way of thinking.
And naturally, humans dominated by their analytic hemispheres tend to have little appreciation for magic and religion.
And, this explains why religion can seem so foolish to some of us, and so obvious to others of us.
Then, it turns out that public education in the “west” (or at least the U.S.) teaches almost exclusively to the analytic hemisphere. (Link)
And naturally enough, kids who excel in U.S. schools tend to be dominated by their analytic hemispheres — and become more dominated as they progress through school.
And noting that the well-educated tend to dismiss the magical Jesus c/s takes on a whole new slant.
In other words, this could explain why most atheists are well-educated.
But, we still don’t know whether the analytic hemisphere is transcendence-blind or the holistic hemisphere hallucinates.
But then, if we think about it, what we call “reasoning” is analytic — whereas, reality itself must be holistic…
And consequently, trying to understand reality using (ordinary) reasoning must be like trying to solve a calculus problem using algebra. Or like trying to understand black holes in terms of classical physics or Euclidian Geometry. Or like, trying to slice up a round pizza using a rectangular pastry cutter. The whole being greater than the sum of its parts (as per Aristotle), something is intrinsically lost in translation, something is missing. (Consider the square root of two, or Zeno’s Paradox.)
And, the hemisphere that judges whether or not something “makes sense”– the analytic hemisphere — is simply incapable of seeing the forest that the other hemisphere sees (or, “believes in”)…
In other words, it must be that we cannot fully understand reality using reasoning — and reality will be “magical” in that sense. Part of reality must not make analytic sense.
In still other words, if we listen carefully, the analytic hemisphere is “telling on itself.” It is telling us that it cannot fully account for, or describe, reality… (We are getting this from the proverbial horse’s mouth…)
And, we are justified in suspecting that this is from where the “magic” we’re talking about comes, and why we shouldn’t be so quick to dismiss it.
So, analytically speaking, it appears that parts of reality are either “irrational” or non-physical, or both, and in that sense magical.
And, the RH is let off the hook. We still can’t be sure that the RH is not hallucinating, but the main reason for thinking that it is has been eliminated (or at least, considerably weakened) — and the magicalness of religion has a potential, if not likely, savior.
Richard, if I understand what you were trying to say, and I think I do, ..I agree, but, I believe there may also be more to it then just simply left and right hemispheres ;-)
R
I don’t buy the premise. I’ve always thought that thinking strengthens faith, not undermines it. Christianity is a rational Faith, afterall, based on testimony – just like that of a court system.
Does thinking undermine the faith of a child that a loving parent loves them? Certainly not and in fact it strengthens that faith. The same is true of Christianity.
But at another deepest level, faith is not at all driven by the brain but by the heart… In Christianity there will always be some kind of fight between the heart and the brain.
As Therese of Lisieux (a great mystic and a Doctor of the Church) said : “Real faith is not a belief but an experiment !!!”
That’s so true… A faith that ONLY rest on the rationality is a belief system. And it’s often this kind of “faith” that produce extremists (no matter the belief system). On the other hands, a faith that rest more on a personal and intimate experience of God is what Therese of Lisieux described as a real faith. And this is in direct line with the gospel of St-John when Jesus said that the true worshipers are those who worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth. That goes much further than just a simple intellectual belief based on some testimonies (which is, I think, just the very first step of someone’s faith)…
A faith that is only intellectual is more “religious” and a faith who his more based on a true intimate experience is more “spiritual”. That’s what I think. And I think that God (Jesus) really want that we end up living a spiritual experience with him.
This looks like a debate we’ve had so many times before on this site.
1. “Faith without rationality is fanatacism …” Those who are said to rationalise without faith, evidently are putting their faith in something else, the supremacy of the human spirit perhaps.
2. I don’t see that the question of the authenticity of the Shroud is a matter of faith for most who believe in it. The evidence on this site is that they seek and prefer a rational approach to it. Further this rational approach has a proselytising utility towards agnostics and others who are predominantly rational in their outlook. It provides a route towards a mission to faith.
3. I made a study of Primal Religions as part of my major in RS. Our world-view is shaped by our culture – something not fully appreciated in Western societies. I note that one posting above mentions that Western education tends to emphasise “analysis”, but possibly this is not as true as it once was. Primal societies have an entirely different viewpoint, that fundamental causes of happenings are to be found in spiritual forces, magic and even witchcraft. I recall that G K Chesterton wrote in his booklet on “Orthodoxy” of the importance of an appreciation of magic among children in coming to a holistic understanding of the universe. In adulthood we too easily lose this appreciation of “magic” in our lives.
4 Richard’s posting is I think profound. I note that this seems to be intensely analytical. Does this say something about Richard’s brain hemispheres, I wonder?
5 The literary source of Noah’s Ark and the Flood can be found in the Babylonian legend of Utnapishtim, set down in the “Epic of Gilgamesh”. There are also several other similar flood stories in other ancient civilisations, generally those where flooding from large rivers created devastation. There are no such flood stories found in Egypt where the flooding of the Nile is seen as a benign event that revitalises the soil. The achievement of the Genesis writer was to give the Babylonian myth a religious purpose, in proclaiming the omnipotence and mercy of God.
6. God’s will is that all should be saved, and that includes all those whom he has created as more rational than others. Consequently a way must be sought that they must be proselytised by some appeal to their rational sense.
7. Concerning evolution – I was reading last night an entertaining piece from a library book on “American Humor” – “And so God says to Charles Darwin: ‘Let there be light in Kansas’ ”
by Gene Weingarten. Somewhere in it, God says: “To Man I gave a brain. Use it, okay?” It’s evident that Gene has a profound understanding of God’s purpose. If you can find it, pick it up, lighten up, and have a chuckle, for a change.
i believe belief requires some humility
I just wanted to point out the fact that there is many different level of faith. And the Saints told us that the highest level is the one where you really live a true spiritual and personal relationship with your God. And that level is better lived when it comes from the heart instead of from the head… I really think that true faith is a question of love and confidence more than any other thing.
Ron,
– I do too. How about “strong emergent properties”?
Chris,
– I THINK that I agree with you too — in two ways:
1) I think that when someone has “faith, they are THINKING holistically. I think that is what “faith” refers too.
2) I also think that thinking analytically (with enough effort) often leads to an “AHA” moment in which we suddenly see the pattern — the forest. It seems that, at such times, we can suddenly leap from one hemisphere to the other.
– I have more to say, but I’ve gotta go mow the lawn.
– On my website (http://messiahornot.com/), you can see my efforts to THINK my way to Jesus.
— Rich
Richard, yeah I think we agree. The rational aspect of Christianity provides the hook, so to speak, and the message of Christianity provides the “Ah ha” moment.
Trust this: A God that seeks to know you and love you will find a way to your heart if you also seek Him and trust in Him.
The Saints and Mystics have their point of view. For me the ultimate touchstone is found in Matthew 25:35-46. These are the words of JESUS – “I was hungry and you gave me food … etc” We are not pure spirit, those are angels. We are flesh and blood, and it is God’s will for the time being that we live in this world, not somewhere else. We must DO what we can. Also check out James 2:14-26 re Faith vs Works. The life of Blessed Frederick Ozanam is an excellent model.
If you think you have to do something to deserve your place in Heaven, then God is not the God of Jesus because this kind of thinking is outside of Love. God is Love remember ? And look at the man on the Shroud and you’ll understand that it’s true ! God don’t demand anything of us except that we live a relationship with him. And if we do so, then our acts have some chances to be better in the end. But the most important thing is to live a personal relationship with him. This is the message of the Saints and Mystics and I trust them. Of course, you can believe what you want. That’s why I love Catholicism : We are free to believe what we want !!! So are more like James. Some are more like Paul. So what ? I just expressed my personal belief and you express yours. No problem with that. And it surely don’t need to start a fight.
Sorry Yannick, it’s not just a matter of opinion or viewpoint. You can check the text yourself (Matt 25:35-46) – I’m not going to type out the full text here. I can’t find much about “God wanting no more than just living a relationship with Him”. But as long ago as Deuteronomy 6:5, it was written “You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind, AND YOUR NEIGHBOUR AS YOURSELF”. Who is my neighbour? Check Luke 10:25-37 for the context where this question was asked – Jesus’ reply was the Parable of the Good Samaritan! “Go and DO likewise!” I’ve always thought it too easy to adopt an exclusively “Spiritual” approach towards the practice of religion. GOD WANTS ACTION! And that action has to come from us. Also I agree with your final comment – “Blessed are the Peacemakers!”
Yannick,
– I agree with everything you said in reply #5 except for that first statement — and even there, I only disagree with one part of it.
– I would argue that when we allude to the “heart” in such a context, we are really talking about the holistic hemisphere of our cerebral cortex — we’re not really referring to that thing in our chest.
— Rich
Please unsubscribe me from this blog. I do not wish to get any articles on this subject from you in future.