The Telegraph, this morning, reports:
The Turin Shroud could finally be dated accurately thanks to new technique that determines the age of ancient artefacts without damaging them, claim scientists.
By Richard Alleyne, Science Correspondent
Published: 7:31AM GMT 24 Mar 2010New dating technique could establish age of the Turin Shroud
The new method does not involve removing a sample of the object
The researchers said the new method was so safe it could allow scientific analysis of hundreds of artefacts that until now were off limits because museums and private collectors did not want the objects damaged.“This technique stands to revolutionise radiocarbon dating,” said Dr Marvin Rowe, who led the research team at the Texas A&M University.
“It expands the possibility for analysing extensive museum collections that have previously been off limits because of their rarity or intrinsic value and the destructive nature of the current method of radiocarbon dating.
“In theory, it could even be used to date the Shroud of Turin.”
Traditional carbon dating involves removing and burning small samples of the object.
Scientists remove a small sample from an object, such as a cloth or bone fragment.
Then they treat the sample with a strong acid and a strong base and finally burn the sample in a small glass chamber to produce carbon dioxide gas to analyse its C-14 content.
Although it sometimes requires taking minute samples of an object, even that damage may be unacceptable for some artefacts.
The new method does not involve removing a sample of the object.
Scientists place an entire artefact in a special chamber with a plasma, an electrically charged gas similar to gases used in big-screen plasma television displays.
The gas slowly and gently oxidises the surface of the object to produce carbon dioxide for C-14 analysis without damaging the surface, he said.
Dr Rowe and his colleagues used the technique to analyse the ages of about 20 different organic substances, including wood, charcoal, leather, rabbit hair, a bone with mummified flesh attached, and a 1,350-year-old Egyptian weaving.
The results match those of conventional carbon dating techniques, they say.
The chamber could be sized to accommodate large objects, such as works of art and even the Shroud of Turin, which some believe to be the burial cloth of Jesus Christ, Dr Rowe said.
The origins of the shroud and its image are the subject of intense debate among scientists, theologians, historians and researchers.
Some contend that the shroud is the cloth placed on the body of Jesus Christ at the time of his burial, and that the face image is the Holy Face of Jesus.
Others contend that the artefact postdates the Crucifixion of Jesus by more than a millennium.
New dating technique could establish age of the Turin Shroud – Telegraph.
>Scientists place an entire artefact in a special chamber with a plasma, an electrically charged gas similar to gases used in big-screen plasma television displays … The chamber could be sized to accommodate large objects, such as works of art and even the Shroud of Turin …
I cannot imagine that the Roman Catholic church would ever allow the entire Shroud to be placed in a chamber of gas which is then electrically charged up to a plasma state.
Nor should us Shroudies want them to take the risk, if there was even the slightest chance that something could go wrong the Shroud destroyed or permanently changed (e.g. the image disappear into the background).
I personally do not want to gain a 1st century radiocarbon dating of the Shroud but lose it in the process.
Stephen
Besides, the Shroud could always be radiocarbon-dated conventionally by taking tiny, less than postage-stamp size, samples from several different inconspicuous areas (e.g. underneath the 1532 fire burn patches, at the ends and sides where it is covered by backing cloth, etc) with no risk to the Shroud itself.
Stephen
I agree.
The last three sentences are from wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shroud_of_Turin) !
Be scared. Be very scared. Remember that the Archdiocese of Turin authorized the damage-called-a-restoration in 2002. We need an international scientific commission more than ever.
>We need an international scientific commission more than ever.
Not if there is any chance that it would be hijacked by anti-authenticity types, which it likely would on the grounds of `even-handedness’ etc.
Besides, it doesn’t take a scientific commission to radiocarbon-date an artifact (for example). It is done all the time by individual archeologists. All that is required is that samples tested be taken from several different areas, to control for random variables.
The Shroud pro-authenticity community has plenty of scientists available to design and oversee the test, and then write up the results in a scientific journal.
If the anti-authenticity side complains of pro-authenticity bias, too bad. That could be countered by pointing out that they had their own biased turn in 1988 when all Shroud pro-authenticity scientific participation and advice was deliberately excluded from the process.
Stephen
I am not a chemist expert but after reading this post I became really worried thinking of the possibility of the Shroud beeing submited to such dating method.
When Dr Rowes admits the possibility of employing this new technique for dating the Shroud of Turin I make a legitimate question does he know the nature of chemical change of topmost linen fibers that produced the cromophore?
The late Dr. Alan Adler published at least two papers on Shroud conservation and oxidation was considered a big threat to mantain the contrast between image and non image areas.
If this method of applying an electrically chargedgas causes oxidation of the surface nonimage fibers will change color and image areas will no longer be discernible.
I sincerely hope church authorities listen to a scientific commission opinion before irreversible damage occurs.
I utterly agree with all comments namely from Professor Stephen Jones.
Let´s preserve the Shroud this sacred linen cloth is a legacy to Mankind
best regards
Maria da Glória
CENTRO PORTUGUÊS DE SINDONOLOGIA
Maria
>I utterly agree with all comments namely from Professor Stephen Jones.
Thanks. But I am just plain Mr. Jones.
I don’t think we need to be worried about this at all. Apart from it being Jesus’ Shroud, who has all power and authority in heaven and earth (Mt 28:18; Eph 1:21), and who has protected His burial sheet down through the ages as a witness to His suffering, death and resurrection; there is effectively zero probability that the Pope would allow the whole Shroud to be put in a chamber of gas which was then electrically charged up to a plasma state.
Perhaps the most important part of the article is Dr Rowe’s statement:
Because that is a tacit admission of what is probably now widely accepted in the radiocarbon-dating community, that the 1988 carbon-14 dating of the Shroud as “AD 1260-1390 … mediaeval”:
was flawed, otherwise why bother proposing to radiocarbon-date the Shroud again?
Stephen
Dan
For some reason I get everyone else’s comments emailed to me, but not my own. I therefore don’t know whether others get my comments either.
I regularly tick all the boxes on the subscribe to posts and comments emails the system generates asking for all posts and comments to be sent to me, but still I get emailed all others’ comments except my own. I have checked my settings and I cannot see where I can set it so that I get my own comments emailed to me.
I cannot recall making comments on another WordPress blog, so I don’t know if it is normal on them that the person posting a comment does not get emailed a copy of it, but it seems a strange feature if that is the case. But if not, and you can set it so that I get my own comments, I would appreciate it. Thanks.
Stephen
I am a dedicated catholic, I feel impelled to give my testimony because one needs to witness to the truth where and when necessary. In 1981 I was very privileged to have had a vision of our lord Jesus Christ in a historic church that was dedicated to St.Peter and St.Paul, I saw our Lords face, so sad.And the crown of thorns on his head so clear was this vision i could see the string of thorns encircled many times and the thorns so clear as if one would be pricked by them, I was totally awestruck and as you can imagine this vision took me from being a christian with many question marks to a fervent believer, after the vision i went to my mothers home when i went in to her living room i told my mother of my wonderful vision and was overwhelmed to discover that my mother had a copy of the shroud of Turin on her wall.I immediately said to my mother, this is Jesus Christ, this is who i saw actually as he is. It is him. The holy shroud image is that of Jesus Christ, I can’t prove it but i would lay my life on this because it is true. I have since 1981 had many other experiences which have also confirmed to me the authenticity of the holy shroud and that it is of our Lord Jesus Christ. One day it will be recognised as true and venerated as the wonderful relic that it is, and i look forward to that day. Yours in Christ … Fred
Fred Ablitt, in my oppinion ,there is no doubt that the shroud of turin is the same shroud that Joseph of Arimathea wrapped the body of Jesus as in the gospel of Mark chapter 15 verses 42…46. Pope Benedict xv1 recently in Turin stated himself that the holy shroud of turin is like a photograph,positive and negative, he also said it is a burial cloth which enshrouded the corpse of a crusified man, and corresponds to what the gospels tell us about Jesus. I personaly believe that there is a whole stack of evidence to back up the holy shroud of turins true authentisity , but the real problem is that one still needs to look at the whole situation with the eyes of faith ,through an open mind,which is where most non believers stumble because they then have to accept that the God they dont believe in might actualy exist, which totaly contradicts there views, and puts there non beliefe to the test. In my view the real problem is that when true authentisity is being debated with those who dont believe in the existance of God, they inevitably wont take into consideration anything that might oppose there views, so in reality there is a stalemate, they then base there whole analysis on desisions they have made according to there own human ability to judge which is prone to error, using no more than tests to detemine age, carbon dating which has been proven unreliable, in the tests that have been carried out on the holy shroud of turin, so i ask those scientists lets look at this with an open mind, with a full compleate and unbiased analysis of all the evidence without exeption, then a true and fare conclusion can start to take place, if only for the sake of common sence…YOURS IN CHRIST…FRED…