Louis :
#27 See the article entitled “Can the Jospice Mattress Imprint be compared to the Image on the Shroud?” on the HSG website, particularly the part where the image penetrated the
pillow, with no plastic involved.

I searched the web on the issue – the image was on a plastic(or nylon which is still not linen) mattress cover. So there was a synthetic cover involved.
Yes, it did penetrate through the pillow.
http://www.shroud.com/pdfs/mattress.pdf

looneytombs :
Fascinating and tragic anecdote! Where did this occur and what large venomous animals were common there.

it was ~ 15 years ago in Eastern Europe. Animals have nothing to do with this and they weren’t venomous at all, quite to the contrary – those were cows.
But animals have parasites called helminths in their digestive tracts( people do, too). To kill those parasites the veterinary pharmacies were distributing some chemicals in the form of big tablets. Parents not being careful were leaving those tablets in the reach of children and those were often chewing them ( at least 1-2 kid per year for a ~ 3 million population).

It’s a plastic cover for the mattress, let us be clear, not a linen cloth. This is important because components from the plastic( especially dye) react with other chemical components more easy than linen would.

I don’t know how was it produced and it is connected to death, but plastic can and will react with chemical substances..

I witnessed something resembling this myself. I used to work in the pediatric intensive care unit and we were treating kids a lot of kids with different poisonings. Well, there were some admitted with intoxication by antihelmintal products for the big animals and those were deadly – kids were dying from acute liver failure and nothing could be done ( no liver transplants existed).
one of the patients (2 years old) was admitted and he needed the central line placement for fluid resuscitation. This was usually done in a separate room, since anesthesia needed to be provided and the procedure required sterile equipment.
After the procedure, when the kid was taken to his bed from the OR table, the plastic blue cover of the OR table had bright discoloration in a form of contours of the child’s body as he was lying there…. he wasn’t dying at the moment, he passed away several days later, but the chemical reactions in his body and perspiration from the skin produced such a reaction on a plastic cover. He was not laying on the bare plastic, there was a thin cotton sheet, but the chemical reaction was so strong that it just went through the cotton.
There were no visible manifestations then – it was basically upon admission, so the child was yet in very stable condition and even conscious.

Yannick Clément :
it does not seem at all to me… He address properly and in details all the question you asked.

Okay, here’s the main question I asked (from previous post # 8):

“The coloration of fabric has been demonstrated by application of reagents important in the Maillard reaction-but has anyone shown the resolution/detail of an image from an underlying object with the reaction?

Give me the page number(s) or experiment(s) for this-I have the printed e-version of the book, perhaps I am missing some pages?

Regarding the paper mâché hand & bolt experiments, in my opinion if you didn’t know what the template was, one would be hard pressed to identify what the resulting images were based on. The experiments show coloration, yes, of course; resolution, detail-not there for me. Rotate the hand image 90 degrees, evaluate it, rotate again another 90 degrees, evaluate it-it could be anything-the diffuseness of the image does not allow a clear identification-if sufficient detail were there, viewing at different angles would not really matter that much.

I think Ray Rogers was an excellent, knowledgable scientist-I have great respect for his work-I also think he would grow impatient with repetitive parroting of his findings without the goal of extending them and exploring the science behind them in more detail. Otherwise, one becomes entangled in the parrotic fringe. I believe that good work such as his will stand the test of time-and because of its soundness & scientific integrity, it will also be refined and reconsidered as work progresses. It does injustice to the work to oversimplify and overextend it as such.