Hugh writes in Might tactile chemography prove to be the super-model?:
Some people think that the “effects of aging” are that an originally bright clear image has faded/flaked to what it is now; and others that an originally completely invisible image became visible by darkening – those who habitually place their experiments in an oven for “aging.” We need to be clear about what “aging” really does.
What happens to non-modern linen bleached by different methods, over time under many different conditions: light, temperature both normal and extreme, moisture, natural radiation, all manner of pollutants in the air or in reliquaries and so forth.
There are the questions: do some or all of these things act differently on “imaged” fibers and non-imaged fibers? How does age act on banding, whatever that is, because it has a visual affect on the image. In fact, is banding a symptom of aging? Why?
Inés San Martín, a Vatican correspondent for Crux has written an interesting article: Is the Shroud of Turin real? Some say it doesn’t matter
Therein we find Joe Nickell saying:
Proponents lack any viable hypothesis for the image formation, and have dismissed re-creations that others have found convincing.
and Barrie Schwortz saying:
Despite being the most studied artifact in history … modern science is still unable to explain the image or how it was made.
and also saying:
… no one in the past 40 years has been able to duplicate it or create any image with the same chemical and physical properties.
Well, yeah, duh, to what Nickell is saying. In every case there have been problems with the re-creations. It is all about details. That’s why they have been dismissed.
But then isn’t Barrie’s argument stale. That’s not a criticism of Barrie, it is the situation. Just as we say that no one has figured out how the image was formed – which every student of logic knows is a big fat fallacy – we haven’t figured out anything better to say about the image except what it is not and to keep bringing up those chemical and physical details.
The Rev. Andrew Dalton, a Legionaries of Christ priest who’s a shroud expert, told Crux that although the Church respects the autonomy of the scientific community, there are details that simply couldn’t have been forged centuries ago.
Details like what?
Isn’t Colin Berry trying to figure out how the image was maybe formed by a forger with Thibault Heimburger reminding him about those pesky little details that “that simply couldn’t have been forged centuries ago.” Inés San Martín should be interviewing them. Here, right out of this blog, let’s look at two comments.
Thibault Heimburger (April 29, 2015 at 3:32 pm):
“These aspects of the TS that the new model is supposed to match” are very important.
Your new model, at the end, must match (or at least be compatible with) the fundamental surface distribution properties of the TS: superficiality (at fabric, thread and fiber level), uniformity of the image (no “hot point”, no spot, no “hole”), half tone and fuzzy contours, and bundles of fibers adjacent to uncolored fibers…
Now, if you think that these facts are not proved, despite the many photos you have, I can’t add anything.
If you think that those properties are not important at all, please explain…
The ” ‘scattered colored spots” (also seen in Garlaschelli’s shroud) is only my description of your hand imprint.
I’ll be in Turin until Sunday.
Colin Berry (April 29, 2015 at 10:25 pm):
Yes, it’s vitally important to match every tiny detail of the TS, as it existed when first produced. My new project will attempt to simulate in the kitchen the effect of centuries of subtle degradation on an image of unknown provenance, whether 700 or 2000 years old.
Seriously, TH, one has to recognize the limitations of any attempts at model building. That’s what we scientists, as distinct from physicians, engineers, technologists etc do – we build models. Recognizing the limitations of models, we are concerned primarily with the principles, especially when there are so many who claim for example that a 200nm thick image in unexplainable by conventional science (wrong, it is).
I am not trying to produce a facsimile copy of the TS (forgery Mark 2?) merely to show that its defining characteristics are consistent with medieval forgery. That’s as a counter to those pseudoscientific agenda-pushers who say they are not. (That’s my agenda – anti-pseudoscience). “Defining characteristic” must not turned into a trail (trial?) with no ending.
Hat tip to Joe Marino for sending the Crux article along.
These are early days, but I’m (how shall we say?) quietly confident.
— Colin Berry
No wine before its time. And don’t read Colin Berry’s posts in his blog before they have aged for a few days to match his unorthodox posting style. Now is the time. Fine wine indeed if you like something acidic. Give it time to breath. That doesn’t mean, of course, that you or I will like it. It is time to read Might this be how the Turin Shroud was faked, using medieval alchemy?
Colin writes in his blog:
Here it is folks: the best I can offer after more than 3 years of almost non-stop experimentation : Model 9 ("the nitric acid model").
Alternative name (afterthought, added 25th April): this new technique produces what might be called a "tactile chemograph". Maybe there was only one ever produced (the image that we now call the Turin Shroud). The tactile chemograph may be thought of as a forerunner of the photograph. (In both instances, one produces a latent image from a real person without harming them in any way, one that can then be developed in a bath (or vapour chamber) with the appropriate developing chemicals.
There was the moment that Thibault Heimburger asked Colin to “explain in detail the advantages of your new hypothesis with regard to your ‘old’ scorch hypothesis.” Colin provided ten points. You should read them all. Here are two to temp you:
6. The technique allows for blood (or blood substitute) to be applied at the same time as body-imprinting medium, provided the blood or substitute stays red in nitric acid fumes (real blood does not – it quickly turns a brown colour). Blood would have been applied after. i.e. directly on top of the gooey imprinting medium to account for there being no body image under Shroud “blood”.
8. When applied to new linen, the technique has a side-effect that would be seen as a bonus – artificial ageing of the linen. Centuries later, pro-authenticity chemists and others would be delighted to find there was less potential vanillin and more mechanical weakness than would be expected of medieval linen a mere 700 years old.
Jumping to the conclusion (maybe, for there is no predicting with Colin):
The Turin Shroud. was this the world’s first and only tactile chemograph (think of it as a primitive ‘photographic’ negative, except for one tiny detail. Neither light not any other kind of elect6romagnetic radiation played any part in its production. It relied on the human touch (well, gentle massage actually).
What finally persuaded this blogger to abandon thermal scorching, and move to liquid (or semi-liquid) imprinting? It was that paper that Joe Accetta PhD presented at the St.Louis gathering, 2014, in which he propsoed that the TS image had been produced by woodblock imprinting. Up till that time I’d always been sceptical re the use of any kind of liquid imprinting medium, considering that would risk a reverse-side image. But I concocted my own equivalent of Joe’s "oak gall" imprinting ink, in which the iron salts probably have a mordant action, as well as creating the ink by reaction with plant tannins. Here’s an image produced, substituting tannin-rich pomegranate rind extract for oak galls, supplemented with iron (II)sulphate.
That ‘wet’ image was as good, if not better than anything produced by scorching. Yes. there was some reverse-side penetration, but might that not be minimized by suitable modification of technique, or simply by using thicker linen (and the TS linen IS thick, as Hugh Farey has observed).
Once liquid imprinting was permitted as an option, then a host of new experimental options were opened up. Thanks Joe Accetta. You weaned me of those thermal scorches (but they were useful in other ways, showing that ANY negative imprint can model certain key features of the TS, notably negative image and 3D-enhancibility). Models in science do not need to tick all boxes simultaneously. One can run different models in parallel, each earning its keep in one or other respect, while patiently waiting for the day when the super-model suggests itself, one that combines the best features of its precursors, not only mine, but those of Garlaschelli and Accetta in particular. Hugh Farey and Adrie van der Hoeven added some useful and thought-provoking grist to the mill too, though whether they and the previous two would approve of the end-result is another matter.
Might tactile chemography prove to be the super-model? We shall see. These are early days, but I’m (how shall we say?) quietly confident.
Oh oh! You can’t put the cork back in, can you?
If new carbon 14 tests show similar results the Jacksons and Fantis of Sindone World will be doing a lot of telling us that radiation from the resurrection changed the date. There will be new explanations. Look at what happened between 1988 and 2015. The Turin Shroud is more real today than it was 25 years ago.
Well, it turns out that Meccanica, an International Journal of Theoretical and Applied Mechanics, has retracted several articles in which Carpinteri was involved. Reason given:
This article has been withdrawn by the Publisher and the Society in agreement with the Editor-in-Chief due to conflict of interest reasons. In a commitment to scientific integrity we decided to withdraw the article as the editorial process had been compromised.
They didn’t know that? Read Full Disclosure.
More likely, it has something to do with the St. Louis Conference paper, Earthquake-Induced Piezonuclear Reactions and the Image on the Shroud of Turin: Critical Remarks by Diana Fulbright and Paolo Di Lazzaro. Here is an abstract from the conference site:
Neutrons produced by hypothetical “piezonuclear” fission reactions have been proposed as causative for the formation of the image on the Shroud of Turin1. According to this hypothesis, compressing solids can provoke nucleus-splitting reactions without emitting γ-rays or producing nuclear waste. This involves an exponentially accelerated decay rate of a thorium isotope, according to results presented in 2. The decay rate of the isotope 228Th in a water solution, compared with its natural decay rate, is said to be increased by a factor of 104 when exposed to cavitation, i.e., sound waves at 20 kHz and 100W, as might be produced by a very high-magnitude earthquake. This claim has been disputed as not substantiated by the experimental evidence presented.
The Shroud image is said to have been formed by a hypothetical flux of thermal neutrons directed into the Shroud, which in turn interacts with atmospheric nitrogen to generate both protons (which are absorbed by the linen cellulose, producing a superficial coloration) and additional isotopes of 14C, captured by cellulose of the linen cloth, as proposed by Rinaudo4, thus skewing the radiocarbon dating of 1988.
However, Rinaudo posited the body as the source of the neutron-proton flux, producing the very superficial image on the inside of the cloth. On the contrary, in the piezonuclear ssion hypothesis, the source of neutrons are rocks of the walls of the tomb. Therefore the flux of neutrons (and of secondary protons) is directed to the outside surface of the linen cloth. As a consequence, the image would be on the outside of the cloth, in contradiction with the detailed results of STuRP studies.
The unique earthquakes in the Gospel of Matthew (27:51, 28:2), absent from the other Gospels, are subsumed into the piezonuclear hypothesis. But they are completely unattested by any known independent historical source. References to earthquakes at the time of the Crucifixion and/or the Resurrection, such as attributed to the unknown historian Thallos, The Narrative of Joseph of Arimathea and Dante’s Divine Comedycan scarcely be considered to support historical authenticity, as their source is none other than the Gospel of Matthew.
Moreover, image formation via the neutron flux-proton interaction hypothesis is said to have required an earthquake of 8 – 9 ML magnitude1 “which “should have razed Jerusalem to the ground”5, and could not have gone unnoticed by contemporary or later historians – i.e., Pliny, Josephus, Philo, Tacitus, not to mention the letters of Paul or Acts, which portrays the apostles openly teaching in the Temple (3:1 ff.) following the death of Jesus.
The premise that the earthquakes of Matthew may somehow have been involved in formation of the Shroud body image may be untenable, as neither occurred, according to the Evangelist, when the shroud could have been in contact with the body.
I was checking out some of the videos and stories related to the opening of the exhibition. In one video, Archbishop Nosiglia said the church is not against new testing. One of the new articles quoted Pope John Paul II in 1998 saying continued research should be done. I think researchers have done their part in continuing research but one can only do so much with the 1978 data. I know the Pope has a lot of things on his plate but if Popes and Archbishops are giving lip service to research/new testing, he really needs to reevaluate the role of the Shroud in the church. If new testing did not disprove the authenticity, it could bring a lot more people to Christianity. There have been expositions in 1998, 2000, 2010 and the current one. A tremendous amount of time, energy and money have been spent in each of those. It would have been nice if some of that time, energy and money could have been put in another multi-disciplinary study. We now have Barberis saying another C-14 test should be done. As we saw at the St. Louis conference, there is a lot of debate among researchers whether it should be done. If it is done, a lot would obviously depend on the background study and the various entities involved in the testing. Heaven forbid if it would be anything like the 88 testing.
In referring to Barberis, Joe is, I think, referring to SHROUD: TRACES OF BLOOD FROM THE "CARBON-14": WHAT DOES SCIENCE SAY, a Google Translation of an article, SINDONE, DALLE TRACCE EMATICHE AL "CARBONIO-14": COSA DICE LA SCIENZA in Famiglia Cristiana.
I favor retesting. Bill Meacham (The Rape of the Shroud) continues to advocate for it. Some people believe that the shroud cannot be tested accurately and oppose such testing. One reason: they think that a resurrection miracle changed the ratio of carbon 14 to carbon 12. Maybe. But how do you test for that?
Began an initial period of organizational and preparatory work that enabled him to begin work on 20 June 2002. It began with the unwrapping of the patches, and then with that of Holland cloth. With the removal of the patches was noted that the amount of material semicombusto was greater than the assumed one. Then it was provided to collect and catalog all the material, indicating for each sample the precise site of collection. Even the filaments are not strictly bound to the sheet were collected and cataloged but were not made cuts or burns on the edges or on the edges so as not to affect the textile does not compromise. At the end of this phase of work, the Shroud, unstitched cloth from Holland, was later turned over to gain access to the back of the sheet. It was noted that the figure of the man of the Shroud was not visible on the back while the bloodstains were. Was provided then perform a series of photographs to document this side not normally accessible. Was effected then a detection scanners. The scanner was brought on different positions by means of a translation system with mobile bridge able to reach all positions on the Shroud without dragging effects. On a limited number of positions, corresponding to particular sites (areas with bloodstains, areas corresponding to image areas with strinature) previously identified on the normally visible, some withdrawals were made by the method of adhesive tapes Method, widely tested and used in campaign of studies carried out by STURP in 1978 . In the same positions were made some spectroscopic measurements (UV-VIS spectroscopy for reflectance and fluorescence, Raman spectroscopy). Finally were made of photographic recording using a special microscope whose objective could be brought (by means of the usual mobile bridge) on individual sites previously identified. All data collected, the samples taken, photographs, scans and all the carbonaceous material and semicombusto, properly cataloged and provided minutes of collection were delivered to the Papal Custodian, at the time the Card. Severino Poletto). At the end it was provided to stitch the Shroud on a new linen cloth (also of Dutch origin) in order to provide the necessary support to the mechanical tarp badly damaged by fire in 1532 and not in a position to be able to exist without adequate external support. The whole was placed on the appropriate bed sliding and suitable to be housed in the display case of preservation. The project was completed July 23, 2002.
(bold emphasis mine)